FEL Quick Dump

[Shift4200]

With the winter we've had, i think the slow bucket club meeting should be held in Jacksonville, at JJ's pizza joint of choice.

I've not ever timed my bucket, but of all loaders I've used in my life... this is by far the slowest. Loader arms move at a decent clip, but the bucket is just painful. Hence jumping on every one of these threads that go by.... i keep hoping to find something that I've not checked before.

I'll be interested to see what Arrow discovers. I've tried being gentile with the loader handle, found the "pause" between functions as mentioned... but no real speed difference from one to the next. I've also tried manhandling it and tried to get it to "pop" into fast dump (similar to the pop into Float mode for the arms).... nothing.

-J

 

[arrow]

What are you considering slow? They have pretty quick little buckets from what iv seen

5-7 seconds from full lock to full dump with lever pushed all the way right. I think the manual states a 2 or 3 seconds.

 

[Shift4200]

5-7 seconds from full lock to full dump with lever pushed all the way right. I think the manual states a 2 or 3 seconds.

Sounds very similar to mine.... but I think we've been down that road before.

I cant help but think that something is off here. Manuals say it's there. Dealer says it's there. Decal says it's there. Where the F is it?

-J

 

[Navasot]

I just checked three of them and all were right at 3-4 seconds. How often do yall grease your loader?

 

[Navasot]

Also is there any play in the joystick at all before the remote kicks in?

 

[Shift4200]

Also is there any play in the joystick at all before the remote kicks in?

I greased my loader about 2 weeks back, maybe 3 now. Its a 3-4 time a year thing for me, if not more.

I don't seem to recall any play in the joystick, but will confirm next time i get in the seat. Should i be feeling a "pop" like i feel when I engage float?

I will add that this is the second loader valve that I've experienced this issue with. The first one on the tractor had an issue where it would not let me curl the bucket with the arms in float mode. Eventually the handle linkage broke, and Mahindra USA replaced the whole valve under warranty.

-J

 

[arrow]

I just checked three of them and all were right at 3-4 seconds. How often do yall grease your loader?

3 or 4 seconds lock to lock? Grease not the issue. Tractor was not responsive to regen from when new. There is no "regen" to this loader control or it is not hooked up correctly somehow. Cannot find serial number when scv is exposed from cover so number must be under a mounting bracket however, gauging from the schematics JJ sent, it looks to have the "regen assembly". Seeing that there are several of us here that are experiencing the same thing, they can't all be hooked up wrong.

Nava, that is making your bucket drops literally twice as fast as ours. Shift, Pilgrim, myself and perhaps others with Mitsu tractors, seem to have real slow hydraulics as they relate to the bucket. The boom is fine, the rock shaft is fine the bucket dump is as slow as a 994D Caterpillar wheel loader which is a giant machine. Something is "irregular" as loader work with these tractors is taking an extra long time.

 

[DavesTractor]

That may explain why the Kabota tractor I was considering when I bought my Mahindra had a half GPM less flow than the Mahindra, but the cycle times on Kabota loader were Half the times on the Mahindra. Undoubtably kubota has a much better use of flow. The Mahindra did have a little more lift, but not enough to have half the cycle times.

You would need to check cylinder sizes to know if this was true. Smaller cylinders on the loader will fill up much more quickly. I doubt that the difference between the Kubota speed and Mahindra speed is related to efficiency. Absent some weird circumstances, it's pretty much just math.

 

[DavesTractor]

On the regen thing, here is a good explanation from kennyd from another site. He is talking green tractors, but I think the theory applies:

Regen is a "feature" of most modern FEL (Front End Loader) valves, it's on the Dump (joystick far right) circuit, and is also referred to as "Fast Dump". The reason it is nice to have is that without it, the weight of a filled bucket can actually "pull" the bucket down faster then the fluid can enter the other side of the cylinder, this will create a air pocket and give the bucket a "floppy" feeling until the joystick is held in the dump mode a few seconds to refill the cylinder pushing the air past the seals. So we add "regen" or "regenerative" function to the valve.

Regen solves this problem by actually filling both sides of the cylinder at the same time with hydraulic fluid. But how will that work you might ask? Well, because there is more volume on the side of the cylinder that extends it since the rod is taking up space in the other side, it "overpowers" the rod side and lets the cylinder extend-thereby dumping the bucket. So since now both sides of the cylinder are "pressurized", the air pocket can not develop, eliminating the "floppy" bucket syndrome. One other added bonus is that the bucket actually dumps faster due to the higher flow rate required to do all this, that's why it's referred to as "fast dump" sometimes.

So, now you may be asking "this is cool and all that, but why do I need to know about it? The answer to that is simple, if you ever try to run a snow plow with two SA (single acting) cylinders, or a cylinder that drives a chute rotator on a snowblower you will soon find out that they won't work if you push the joystick to far right in the regen mode. The plow won't work because since both lines are pressurized-both cylinders will be trying to extend at the same time binding everything up. The rotator won't work because there is no weight pushing the cylinder closed like there is on the loader.
On most, if not all John Deere tractors there is a lockout the limits how far the joystick travels to the right to keep it out of the regen mode.

 

[Navasot]

Both the max and the 3016 take right around 4 seconds from full lock to full dump. I checked about 3 of each. You will not feel a bump or change in the lever when it regens. When yall operate the lever start pushing to the right very slow and about halfway you should see the bucket pause. then keep going and it will start dumping again. Its hardly faster than before the switch but it is just a bit. When you use the float it will take away all functions of the loader this lets the weight of the bucket and loader float while back dragging. If that's what you ment by no tilt while in float mode.