FEL Snow PLow size?

[LD1]

It appears this is pretty much becoming my snow plow build thread....

I took the moldboard off the frame today. That was fun:confused2: I picked up an oxy/propane torch Fri as I knew I couldn't do this with cutoff wheels, and I have been planning to get a torch for some time. I didn't want to deal with yet another cylinder, and propane is easy and a bit safer than acetylene, so that is why I went that way. I could only fit a 125 cf O2 cyl in my available space, so I got that even though I knew it was on the small side. They will give me full credit on the lease when I have room to upgrade to the 282 cf tank.

I always struggled with torch cutting when I was taking my welding class at the CC, and I sure haven't gotten any better since. I ended up having to peel out sections of the modlboard as I couldn't hit the welds only to release it (like I said, I stink at torch cutting...). In the end I completely drained the O2 tank doing this, which didn't totally surprise me as I had read you use a ton of O2 on oxy/propane. But I got it done. Rusty, but still seems structurally solid enough.

Now need to clean up with grinder and then sandblast it, plus put in a new cross member where the old one was mangled and broken. Then I will bring it to a shop to get a moldboard rolled and start the reassembly/welding.

A couple pics of today... (couldn't have picked a hotter, nastier day to do this too...)

You got a good start:thumbsup: I did mine a few years ago like that. Only I didnt take it to a shop to have a new one rolled. Did it all by hand and it was a PITA.

A couple of pointers. I went upsized to 11ga. If you are having a shop roll one in, consider 11ga. 14ga is probabally what you peeled out. I doubt there will be much difference in cost, but it will last longer.

Second thing, if you are a good welder, consider welding the new skin on solid. Most of the moldboard "rot" comes from moisture getting behind the skin and especially behind those angle braces and just laying in there at the bottom. And if you ever need a new skin again, just get another $200 plow. But being welded solid should make it last considerabally longer:thumbsup: (I may have mentioned this already)

 

[dstig1]

I have dealt with thicker sheet metal before when I built a dust cyclone for my WW shop (only 16 ga, IIRC), and it is not meant to be worked by hand, IMHO....(especially larger pieces). Getting a shop to roll it will make it a ton easier. What I measured from this plow was equivalent to 12ga, which is consistent with what I found from some online sources. 12 ga appears to be the standard for these. I was planning to replace with the same. I could up it to 11, perhaps. It would make it easier to weld.

Yep, you already mentioned to weld the back solid, and I am going to do that. With the MIG that will be pretty easy to do. Worst case, if I burn through I can just fill and grind smooth.

Funny thing here is the moldboard was not the worst part, but there was a ton of loose corrosion in the space inside the angle frame (behind the moldboard). I am going to hit those with some primer before welding. Yeah welding will burn off some of it, but better than nothing...

I've got a few weekends of work ahead of me...

 

[LD1]

What I measured from this plow was equivalent to 12ga, which is consistent with what I found from some online sources. 12 ga appears to be the standard for these. I was planning to replace with the same. I could up it to 11, perhaps. It would make it easier to weld.

Yep, I just looked at the specs again and 12ga IS what it appears to be OEM. I could have swore it was 14ga though:confused2: Maybe that was some other mfg's I was looking at.

Anyway, I wen 11ga on mine. Weight difference is minimal, and 11ga is a normally stocked Item at most steel suppliers. 12ga is NOT. (at least around me). 11ga, 14ga, 16ga seems to be the ones they normally carry (and more smaller) but usually none in between them 3.

Yep, you already mentioned to weld the back solid, and I am going to do that. With the MIG that will be pretty easy to do. Worst case, if I burn through I can just fill and grind smooth.

Funny thing here is the moldboard was not the worst part, but there was a ton of loose corrosion in the space inside the angle frame (behind the moldboard). I am going to hit those with some primer before welding. Yeah welding will burn off some of it, but better than nothing...

I've got a few weekends of work ahead of me...

I gave my a good few coats of primer as well. I figured it couldnt hurt either. And I didnt burn in too hot with the welding either. I figured it didnt have to be a 100% penetration/x-ray quality weld. I just wanted enough to be water tight.

Some companies that re-skin plows just culk them for the same reasons. But I wanted something more permanent. I did do some culking though in some other areas. Like where the cutting edge meets the moldboard, because behind the cutting edge gets pretty nasty too. I also have a deflector on top. I culked around mounting bracket for that too.

This was all 2 years ago and so-far the only rust on the plow is the edge of the cutting edge and the few areas where the plow wings have rubbed through the paint. But it dont take anything to touch them up every once in awhile.

Also, I think I forgot to ask, but where did you get the cylinders from? Did you get the ones from baileys? They are about $20-$25 cheaper than anywhere else that sells them. I was wondering if they were any good or looked like cheap POS's if those are the ones you got.

 

[dstig1]

I got the Baileys ones. They are made in China (no surprise) but seem well-finished and fine, though I haven't played with them yet. They were by far the cheapest I found. Most cylinders were around $100 ea and these were half that. I figure Baileys is a good name and hopefully isn't selling crap...time will tell. The brand on the sticker says Maxim, FWIW. Never heard of them, but I don't know much hydraulics stuff.

Same plan on welding. Hot enough, but no need for full pen on this. After all, they only welded a 1-2" strip in a few places to hold it OEM... The risk of burn through is mostly from heating up due to the long welds, but skipping around will help that.

 

[LD1]

I got the Baileys ones. They are made in China (no surprise) but seem well-finished and fine, though I haven't played with them yet. They were by far the cheapest I found. Most cylinders were around $100 ea and these were half that. I figure Baileys is a good name and hopefully isn't selling crap...time will tell. The brand on the sticker says Maxim, FWIW. Never heard of them, but I don't know much hydraulics stuff.

Baileys sells a lot of maxim stuff. It is their "low cost" stuff. I did a dump bed a few years ago and used maxim 2.5" x 32" IIRC tie rod cylinders and they seemed to be as good as anything.

 

[dstig1]

I worked on repairing the damaged parts over the weekend and tonight spent the evening sorting through the SSQA mount. I lined it up and tacked it in place first on the back edge. Putting the plate and the A frame together makes this thing rather heavy.... I attached a few pics. I am going to use that piece of C-channel laying in there to help support the bottom of the mount better. I will cut a shorter piece for that. Because the bottom lip of the plate is bent all the way across for the SSQA pin holes, I need something to weld the plate more solidly as the only contact right now is where those back side tacks are... thus the channel.

I got one of the angle braces done. It was quite a bugger as the top is a compound angle and the bottom gets notched around that bracket. The torch works great for this cutting, but I ran it dry of O2 at the end so I did'nt get even a half decent cut along the bottom edge. I'm still on my first 20 lb propane tank too, and that was my 2nd O2 tank! Oxy-propane uses a lot more O2 than OA cutting, apparently. I can probably do 3 full O2 tanks or more total before needing more propane. I may run for a new tank first thing in the AM so I have it on hand to finish up. The weld shop is very close.

Fit up is not perfectly precise on the angle brace as it was so difficult to sort out. So even though the only way I could do the fitting was by trial and error (after using a woodworking dovetail angle gage to transfer a rough angle), I was able to grind and cut it close enough to work just fine. In pic #4 you can see the tubes I put in for the rear skid shoes behind the SSQA plate. I shortened the A-frame too, before putting those in.

 

[dstig1]

Here are the repairs to the sector. I straightened out the bent stuff and then changed it to use pieces of angle instead of just a flat plate for the stop, as this seems to be a weak spot on the sector (takes the worst abuse). I saw that Kubota Tee's similar ST90 Meyers plow had this in his build thread, so I copied that.

Not sure I will get time this weekend to do much, but I will try to pick away at the second angle brace and get that done. Then I will tack things in place and check fit with the tractor. It's not here at the house, so I have to cart this stuff to where the tractor is. Or vice versa.

 

[LD1]

Looking good, but I question the placement of the angle brace.

That angled peice you got that funny notch out in, the peice that it goes over is the plow abgle stop. The way it looks now, you wont get full angle out of it because it will hit your angle brace. Maybe you knew that?? Maybe you planned for that??? or maybe I'm just seeing things wrong this morning??.

Also, Did you test fit one of the cylinders? Because I know there isnt much room between the cylinder and the side of the a-frame where that angle brace goes.

 

[dstig1]

Good catch. I didn't think about the cylinder clearances there. I'll need to try that. Worst case I can pull the bracket in a bit so it sits totally on top of the frame, though I was hoping to use the extra weld area on the side of the frame for stiffening. It may very well affect the max angle also, though I'm not sure it will be much or really matter. I can play with it a bit more tonight. The cylinder will be the bigger issue, I think.

This brace is one of those things you can't really try out much until it is complete and in place as there is no way to get it in there until it is fully fitted. But I'll check it out before proceeding with the second one. I have room to adjust things still. It will just take more time. I was trying to get the support as far forward as possible, and am running into these issues as there just isn't a lot of room to work with there.

 

[LD1]

Good catch. I didn't think about the cylinder clearances there. I'll need to try that. Worst case I can pull the bracket in a bit so it sits totally on top of the frame, though I was hoping to use the extra weld area on the side of the frame for stiffening. It may very well affect the max angle also, though I'm not sure it will be much or really matter. I can play with it a bit more tonight. The cylinder will be the bigger issue, I think.

This brace is one of those things you can't really try out much until it is complete and in place as there is no way to get it in there until it is fully fitted. But I'll check it out before proceeding with the second one. I have room to adjust things still. It will just take more time. I was trying to get the support as far forward as possible, and am running into these issues as there just isn't a lot of room to work with there.

You can weld the angle braces to the TOP lip of that peice with the pin hole in it. Thats about the only place I see. Because any farther forward and you are in the way of the sector, and where it is now is in the way ot the angle cylinder.

You could always try to move the QA plate farther back (closer to where the origional pin hook-ups are) and that would give you a little more angle for the brace.

 

[dstig1]

I played around with the location of the SSQA plate earlier and that drove a lot of the decisions. I want to have it as far forward so the plow is closer to the tractor for one. Secondly, I now have it so the hoses come out just behind the plate. If i move it back any more, they will conflict. I could cut out a little of the plate, I suppose, though I really don't want to weaken the plate there.

And yes, the braces cannot move forward any more on the A frame. I also want them to hit the main frame to some degree for improved strength and stiffness. I don't want it sitting up on that pin bracket only.

So if the brace interferes with the cylinder, then my only option is to connect to the top of the A frame, in about the same location or just slightly back.

Need to do some more checking next...

 

[dstig1]

Further checking today shows I will be OK on clearances. I did move the brace back about a half inch so it now clears the sector angle stop and the stop hits just like it should. The cylinders clear with a good 1/4" or more, so those are fine too. The pictures don't show quite the right angle, but it is plenty clear. Thanks for the tip to check that LD1!:thumbsup: Saved me some grief.

After checking that I proceeded with making the second brace, which is the mirror of the first. I used the first one as a guide to speed up fitting that and it went much faster. You can see the 2 braces in the 3rd photo

Moving the braces back interferes slightly with the C-channel reinforcement I was going to use, but it isn't much so I will just gouge out a small thumbnail section of the channel edge with the grinder where it hits the angle braces to fit.

I did find that the new cylinders move quite easy by hand. This re-confirms for me that the old ones were in pretty bad shape as it took a 5 lb mallet and a dozen blows to make them move in...

I also found that no matter if you think you got all the hydraulic fluid out before playing with them, you did not. So the first time you fully compress the cylinder, that oil shoots out the port hard enough to hit the ceiling in your garage and make a huge mess. You wouldn't think a couple ounces of oil could make that much mess, but I assure you it can...

Progress continues...

 

[LD1]

Looks great so far:thumbsup: Keep us posted.

 

[dstig1]

Tacked it up and checked the fit and everything was a go, so I fully welded it up tonight. I had primed it before welding so I could get the areas that were hard to reach. I masked off the weld sections, except where I forgot to...then I just wire brushed it off first.

I'm bringing the mold board frame in to a shop tomorrow to have them cut and roll a new mold board for it. I'll weld it in, but I sure am not going to try to form 11ga sheet metal by hand:confused2:

 

[LD1]

Looking good:thumbsup:

 

[94BULLITT]

Looking good. I can't wait to see the new moldboard. I wish I could find a plow for a $175.

 

[bubbacuse77]

Lets see some complete pics when you get it done

 

[dstig1]

Will do. Have been too busy clearing wood off the land getting ready for the excavator dude to mess with the plow, but I will have some time this weekend to work on it. Hoping to finish up welding everything, and maybe get it all primed, if I'm lucky. The mount is complete and primed, I just need to get the moldboard welded and primed, and then paint the whole deal. If I get luckier, I might wrap up painting next weekend.

 

[dstig1]

Progress... I got the spray booth set up late last week and got it final painted over the weekend. That paint takes forever to dry, even with the hardener added. Oil based alkyd enamel from Van Sickle (what the Fleet Farm stocks). The hardener is pretty toxic, BTW, as it has isocyanates in it. I wore a full face respirator with fresh organic vapor cartridges and paint spray filters on it. Cartridges aren't the best for isocyantes, but for the limited amount that was in this stuff and my brief time spraying (plus the fan in the booth), it was fine in my case. But then I know these kinds of chemicals and the proper precautions.

I will let it sit and harden more for a couple days and then start putting the mount together with the sector, cylinders and hoses, and hopefully get it mounted this weekend.

So here it is. The first pic shows the orange explosion in the booth area and the 3 main parts. The others are more close-ups of how I did the mount.

 

[LD1]

Looks Great:thumbsup: