Fence Posts, upside down or not?

[tallyho8]

I'm putting in round treated fence posts. Should I put them in upside down or right-side up? The posts are narrower on the top and wider on the bottom.

The way that I put fence posts in is that I use my tractor post hole digger to dig a hole about an inch or two smaller than the diameter of the post and then I make the hole about 30 inches deep if I want to bury the post 36 inches.

Then I set the post by the hole and push it in with my front end loader. This makes the post very tight and I do not have any hole to backfill.

This method works perfect if I put the poles in upside down but some have told me it is best to put the posts in right side up with the wide end to the bottom. If I do that then it makes the hole wider than the post and I have to backfill it and it never seems as tight.

Your opinion?

 

[rgood]

I think the post is going to last longer if you put them in right side up.

 

[whistlepig]

I'm putting in round treated fence posts. Should I put them in upside down or right-side up? The posts are narrower on the top and wider on the bottom.

The way that I put fence posts in is that I use my tractor post hole digger to dig a hole about an inch or two smaller than the diameter of the post and then I make the hole about 30 inches deep if I want to bury the post 36 inches.

Then I set the post by the hole and push it in with my front end loader. This makes the post very tight and I do not have any hole to backfill.

This method works perfect if I put the poles in upside down but some have told me it is best to put the posts in right side up with the wide end to the bottom. If I do that then it makes the hole wider than the post and I have to backfill it and it never seems as tight.

Your opinion?

Not the traditional method of installing wooden fence posts. I doubt the fence post knows if it is upside down or not. They say if the taper is small at the bottom and large at the top the fence post will eventually work itself out of the ground. That has not been the case in my experience. I do put the big side down just from habit.

 

[Western]

Seems that if the wider end is in the ground, the extra canter may help keep the post from "heaving" up later.

I've never seen a power pole put in any other way. They must know something and they have allot on the "line".

 

[whistlepig]

"Heaving" in the north is due to the ground repeatably freezing and thawing.

 

[rockinmywaypa]

Something to consider is that over the posts lifespan is that it is going to eventually rot away below ground level. Putting the largest end in the ground keeps more solid material in use after you lose an inch or so to rot even if it takes 15 years.

 

[jimmyj]

Something to consider is that over the posts lifespan is that it is going to eventually rot away below ground level. Putting the largest end in the ground keeps more solid material in use after you lose an inch or so to rot even if it takes 15 years.

I don't think it matters in the grand scheme but my good neighbour from Owen Sound Ontario makes a good point!

 

[TRR]

Since you're in Lousiana I don't think you'll have to worry about frost heaving. If I were digging a hole and tamping dirt back around the post, I'd put big end down. However, you're treating the post like a piling and that goes in small end down.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Heaving aside, posts will loosen when the ground is extremely wet. Put the large end down. The tapered backfill will resist uplift and pulling from tensioning the fence.

 

[RobertBrown]

I'm putting in round treated fence posts. Should I put them in upside down or right-side up? The posts are narrower on the top and wider on the bottom.



Your opinion?

I'm assuming you are refering to the widest diameter as the down or underground end.......and I'm assuming your fence is wire....
It just so happens I've been planting fence posts for the past several weekends. My technique differs from yours but then so does my fence and my fence needs.
I'm building a board fence (4) with 6.5" round posts at the joints and 3.5" round posts at the middle (of the fence board). I think my posts have to be placed a little more carefully than yours do and I don't have and auger attachment so I hand dig the holes. I put the straightest end of the post up, and usually the narrowest end of the post in the hole as this gives me more post up to to nail to and the fence is more straight.
With a board fence, if the posts aren't dead plumb and straight the fence starts looking bad quick, I don't think it is quite so critcal with a wire fence. And since my goals are mainly asthetic, I need to take my time with the post planting.
I snap two lines, one at the top and one at the bottom of the posts, the lines are perfectly parallel and congruent. This allows me to get the posts to line up perfectly. I use a plumb bob the plumb them up the other way and I partially fill the holes with concrete, allow it to set before I nail the boards with a nail gun.
This way when I look down the fence row, when it is finished I can smile

 

[tallyho8]

The fences I am putting up are either barb wire or field fence and they are in the back pastures so they don't have to be perfectly straight for aesthetics as they are surrounded by woods.

Almost all the old fence posts that I am removing that are from 50 to 75 years old, all seem to be broken or rotten right at the ground level and the part above and below ground is in decent shape.

We don't have any frost here to worry about and if the poles do work their way up a few inches over time, it wouldn't be hard for me to go along the fence line and push them back down a little with my fel every few years.

If I was digging a larger hole and filling with concrete I would put the large end down but since I am driving them like a pile driver does, I believe that it is compressing the soil around the poles making them tighter than they would be if I put them the other way and tried to tamp dirt down around them.

One thing for sure, it's a lot easier to do it this way.

 

[/pine]

If the posts are being driven rather than planted...they will drive much easier stump end up...also less chance of splitting...

I used to contract with a pile driver and all wood piles were driven "top down"

 

[rockinmywaypa]

Do you sharpen the end before driving it down? It would be unheard of here to do it any other way. There are machines in use here that peels the post and as it finishes the operator lifts it and puts a pencil point on the wide end. They are pushed in and then after a few months and a few rains the ground settles back around to hold them tight.
Jimmy J Do you ever get up to the elephant's a-hole for a visit. Anybody reading this has to look at a map of southern Ontario to get the reference.

 

[RobertBrown]

We don't have any frost here to worry about and if the poles do work their way up a few inches over time, it wouldn't be hard for me to go along the fence line and push them back down a little with my fel every few years.


One thing for sure, it's a lot easier to do it this way.

I curious as to what technique you use to push the post down with out bending the bucket. How exactly do you do this?

 

[tallyho8]

I curious as to what technique you use to push the post down with out bending the bucket. How exactly do you do this?

My Kubota L4400 has a very sturdy bucket but I also fill the bucket with dirt to give it a lot of weight to force the post down. Also, as stated in post #1, I dig a hole first a little smaller than the post with my post hole digger making it easier than just pounding the post into the ground.

 

[Joe DeBock]

The big end goes down. It's digging holes, not science or art. Don't put more than eight inches of dirt before compacting. Don't use green colored posts. They are junk! Get black, creosote coated, ones. I've installed thousands. The key to success is product and compaction.

 

[Chilly807]

The big end goes down. It's digging holes, not science or art. Don't put more than eight inches of dirt before compacting.

We do much the same, the only place they'll rot off is just where the ground level is.

Sean

 

[Ray_Fort_White]

As a retired Telephone Outside Plant Engineer I couldn't help but get a chuckle from the comment about never seeing a power pole up-side-down. I just wish I'd thought of specifying one that way on a job so I could hear what the Line Crew foreman would say. They have a very colorful way of asking wtf???

Power poles are much taller, and the fat end is much stronger. I've written orders to replace poles hit by cars where the pole broke at the top where the wires were connected and not at the bottom where they were hit.

Productivity would be diminished since it would take longer to drill holes, and longer thru-bolts would be required.

Poles only rot at the ground line. In a lot of wet areas a chemical wrap "bandage" is placed on a pole at the ground line to ****** rotting. I've often wondered it that sort of thing would be worth while for a farm. Perhaps if you could "borrow" them from the phone or power company. ;o)

 

[/pine]

...Poles only rot at the ground line....

Ever been to a marina?...all the pilings (telephone poles) are fat end up...and usually domed off and painted on top...many are capped with copper...

Next time you're on the interstate...check out the wooden DOT fence posts..all have aluminum caps...

Wood is most susceptible from the end-grain

 

[Duffster]

Ever been to a marina?...all the pilings (telephone poles) are fat end up...and usually domed off and painted on top...many are capped with copper...

Next time you're on the interstate...check out the wooden DOT fence posts..all have aluminum caps...

Wood is most susceptible from the end-grain

You are right, they rot at the top as well. But they seldom fail because of that rot.