fireplace update

[salopez]

Hey guys need some help.

I have a majestic pre-fab fireplace in my living room that is pretty worthless. We also have a nice wood stove in the basement that is awesome. However when it gets below zero the house is cold. I want to update the fireplace in my living room and am really thinking one of the two below bit not sure which one.

Gas logs in existing fireplace. Convenient and can add a gas stove in kitchen which would be nice

Pellet stove insert. I think this would give off more heat but don't know.

Additional info. We have a heat pump as main heat and back up generator

 

[brin]

Hey guys need some help.

I have a majestic pre-fab fireplace in my living room that is pretty worthless. We also have a nice wood stove in the basement that is awesome. However when it gets below zero the house is cold. I want to update the fireplace in my living room and am really thinking one of the two below bit not sure which one.

Gas logs in existing fireplace. Convenient and can add a gas stove in kitchen which would be nice

Pellet stove insert. I think this would give off more heat but don't know.

Additional info. We have a heat pump as main heat and back up generator

You might want to Google ...Installing wood stove in Pre - Fab fireplace....I think you will find it is not advised....From what I have seen ...the pre fab has to be removed...hopefully from the back and then the whole thing has to be rebuilt to accommodate the heat of a wood stove or real fireplace....

 

[beeforty]

You will need the backup generator for the pellet stove when the power is out because of the blower for the pellets and feed auger. Inlaws now seem to spend a lot on pellets for their stove, not sure which is cheaper now gas or pellets. At least with gas you don't need to run the generator unless you need lights with power off. It is easier for everyone to feed a pellet though.

 

[BeezFun]

In what way is the prefab unit useless? If it's pulling combustion air out of the house you could add doors.

 

[dave1949]

People have posted that they can run their pellet stoves off a 12v battery and inverter during power outages. It would be bad to have to keep the generator running all the time to keep the pellet stove operating, but apparently that isn't necessary.

The fireplace inserts I have seen need/use a fan to kick the heat out into the room, another electric dependency.

 

[s219]

Agreed, don't expect to put an insert into the fireplace -- they are not designed for that.

What is the problem, and how would gas logs improve it?

Does the fireplace have an outdoor air kit? A blower fan? Glass doors?

We have a pre-fab fireplace (Heat & Glo Energy Master 485). It does not give off near as much heat as a stove would, of course, but if we run it (with glass doors open) for a couple hours and build up a bed of embers for the rest of the day, the radiant heat is enough to make the room it's in quite hot -- and that's a big room with a cathedral ceiling and loft. I run a ceiling fan to even out the heat and make the room more comfortable. I can also pull hot air from the ceiling through a return using the HVAC blower, and push it to the rest of the house. Surprisingly it puts out enough warm air to notice even in remote corners of the house.

If we run the fireplace for just a couple hours and then let it die, it will never get a hot bed of embers and doesn't heat much.

If we run with the glass doors shut, there is very little heat radiated into the room (almost as if the glass blocks the radiant heat). Running the blower fan moves a little more heat (captured from the box and liner) into the room, but not much.

So I have found the trick is to run with the doors open, build up a hot bed of embers, and then keep feeding it for the rest of the day. At the end of the day, close the doors and turn on the blower fan to burn the fire down and extract remaining heat.

 

[Welshman]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but we had (have) a Majestic pre-fab fireplace that wasn't very efficient. We installed a Regency high efficiency wood burning insert in it and love it. In fact, I'm enjoying it right now. This is the third winter for it and it's really getting a work-out this year.

 

[s219]

All the inserts I have looked at are meant for masonry fireplaces only, and that included some Regency models. Which one do you have?

 

[Tractor Seabee]

OP,

If you burned wood in the prefab there is no reason not to put an insert in it. They run a new flue pipe up to the top sized proper for for the insert. I have an EPA approved insert in a regular fireplace. It has a fan to push the hot air out so we get convection and radiant heat. It has provisions to bring in outside air for combustion but that was not installed, wish it was. Therefore; get a modern insert, set it up for OSA combustion, and make sure the fan is in your generator panel. If you gen set runs your heat pump you have the best of all worlds. Our insert provides a lot of heat. During power outages (2-3 times a year) we can at least keep thins from freezing and the core area toasty. Ours cost $4500 installed 4 years ago when we bought the place. The old insert did not meet code so seller paid the cost. Pellets up here now are about even with propane in cost per BTU output. Nat gas is not available. I cut my electric bill $200/month by using the insert and wood (free) in cold weather.

Ron

 

[haveissues]

We had the same situation with a pos zero clearance prefab fireplace in our house. I replaced it with a bis nova a few years ago. It is basically a zero clearance wood stove that installs in the wall. It creates great heat! We heat the upstairs with it. You really can't use an insert because you have no firebox. Once that fireplace comes out you are left with a big hole.

 

[salopez]

OK good info from everyone. Here is some more stuff I should have relayed.

I am not thinking of an insert wood stove only pellet. This way I can run intake and exhaust up current flue with class a pipe.

We would rather not use wood to keep the mess out of the main living space.

Our house is a kit designed to be on a crawl space but we have a basement. The guys that built it only put a return in the basement so moving hot air right now is not easy.

The room in question is vaulted and has loft plus a big hole for spiral stairs. I cannot use ceiling fan to mix air since that will stop heat from rising from basement heat source.

I do not have HVAC blower wired to generator at this point but could add it. I am more concerned about heat with power the. Without. Temps were in low 20's when power was out. First floor was 60 and basement high 70s. We just stay in basement for power outages. When temps get lower the upstairs just can't stay warm even with power on. I hate using electric back up in HVAC system.

Our majestic is very small and does not really ever heat up more then 5 feet from it. For example our neighbors have the same house but no wood stove and they struggled to keep their living room in the low 50's and the rest of the house above freezing.

I am looking to take the chill out of the house in extreme temps that is easy for my wife as I am not home usually in bad weather as I plow snow. She knows how to use the gen. And all the machines.

The real question is what do you think will offer more/better heat pellet stove insert or glass logs?

 

[KennyG]

This year we replaced an old wood insert in the family room with a Regency gas insert. Some of the same issues - we did not use the wood insert because of the mess and it's a awkward place to get wood to. We also have a small Osborne wood stove in the basement. The new insert is sealed and 85% efficient. Installation involved dropping two small flexible metal ducts down the existing chimney - intake and exhaust. It has an automatic blower but will operate (no blower) without power if necessary. Since we spend a lot of time only in the family room and the furnace thermostat is in the hall just outside the family room, it has reduced gas usage by a significant amount.

 

[Welshman]

All the inserts I have looked at are meant for masonry fireplaces only, and that included some Regency models. Which one do you have?

Mine is a Regency I3100.

 

[s219]

Mine is a Regency I3100.

How about that -- the specs sure do allow for mounting in factory fireplace as long as a new flue pipe is run up (so the old flue pipe becomes a chase basically). I learned something new!

 

[Welshman]

How about that -- the specs sure do allow for mounting in factory fireplace as long as a new flue pipe is run up (so the old flue pipe becomes a chase basically). I learned something new!

I'm really happy with mine. I paid $3100 installed for it in Jan. 2011, and think I've saved a fair amount of electricity as a result. I'm "all electric" and use a heat pump, too. Besides, we like the aesthetics of it. We have an open floor plan with a cathedral ceiling on the main floor. I have a ceiling fan mounted at the peak about 4' out from the fireplace, and the heat rising from the fireplace will spin the fan.

 

[lockhaven]

OK good info from everyone. Here is some more stuff I should have relayed.

I am not thinking of an insert wood stove only pellet. This way I can run intake and exhaust up current flue with class a pipe.

We would rather not use wood to keep the mess out of the main living space.

Our house is a kit designed to be on a crawl space but we have a basement. The guys that built it only put a return in the basement so moving hot air right now is not easy.

The room in question is vaulted and has loft plus a big hole for spiral stairs. I cannot use ceiling fan to mix air since that will stop heat from rising from basement heat source.

I do not have HVAC blower wired to generator at this point but could add it. I am more concerned about heat with power the. Without. Temps were in low 20's when power was out. First floor was 60 and basement high 70s. We just stay in basement for power outages. When temps get lower the upstairs just can't stay warm even with power on. I hate using electric back up in HVAC system.

Our majestic is very small and does not really ever heat up more then 5 feet from it. For example our neighbors have the same house but no wood stove and they struggled to keep their living room in the low 50's and the rest of the house above freezing.

I am looking to take the chill out of the house in extreme temps that is easy for my wife as I am not home usually in bad weather as I plow snow. She knows how to use the gen. And all the machines.

The real question is what do you think will offer more/better heat pellet stove insert or glass logs?

without electric the pellet stove is just as good as a chair when it comes to heating

 

[sld]

The pellets will give off way more heat than gas logs.

One group 31 battery and inverter will power my pellet stove for at least 8 hours. With 3 in the boat in the garage I always have one ready. I've never pushed a single battery extremely far since I have more than one. Luckily, we've never been without power for more than a day before....at least in winter.

I have a crappy fire place upstairs with pellet stove in the basement. I would love to replace the fireplace but just looking at it, it appears that bricks will have to be removed from the wall to get it out. Surely they didn't trap the insert in the opening?

 

[FredH]

I have had a 30+ y.o. wood stove , a newer technology wood stove , a pellet stove , a pos. Fireplace that did not even look good let alone work worth a dang and now finally a Quadra Fire Fireplace in 2 different house's . The advance's in technology have made a difference in how well each type work and the effectiveness of the various fuel type's .

For me , with the way our house is built , I went with a fireplace replacement , thus the Quadra Fire . It is basically a zero clearance wood stove in a big box . The old for looks only fire place was a built in , thus when we replaced , we went the same route . If I had chosen to do a complete remodel , I likely would of went with pellet stove in a free standing model like most wood stoves are .

As mentioned , Most , if not all pellet stoves are at least now equipped to have battery back up as a option if not standard . The only thing I would make sure of is the Auto ignite feature . Ironically some do not have that feature , you end up having to use little fire starter blocks , ( M.I.L. had a stove like that ) . Gas / Propane I have no experience with although neighbor has a small built in propane in their bedroom that seems to work good for a one room deal . Even has a Remote control , so you don't even have to get out of bed !!!

We looked at replacing my Parents wood stove with either gas or pellet . Based upon size of house , We are leaning towards pellet since most have a higher BTU rating per hour than any gas stove available . That is the area I would look at . BTU's per hour at max , initial cost , yearly operational costs , ( costs of pellets per year versus consumption of gas per year ) .

Fred H.

 

[dixstir]

we have a 1500 sq foot home , we have a qudra fire pellet stove up stairs and a kozy heat bricked in fire place down stairs. no problem to keep it 70 or even 80 , we use a lot of wood but only a pallet of pellets each winter.done this for about 17 years with pellets , before we had a corn stove dint like that very well.

 

[Midniteoyl]

I heve this fireplace (actually, the Onyx-1) and its a Zero-Clearance fireplace (ALL of their fireplaces are zero-clearance http://www.icc-rsf.com/c/iccrsf/file_db/pdfs.pdf_en/Onyx_ang.pdf) that would work perfect in a pre-made fireplace, or even not. Mine is built into an outside wall with nothing but 2x4's and sheetrock around it. It should work great inside a pre-fab. There are blowers, gravity vents, screen door kits, thermostat kits, HVAC kits (hook to existing vents), etc.. Its even gas log caplable The 7" Excel stainless insulated ventpipe they use are better than the SuperVents with a higher certification.. Take a look around.

Onyx 2 Fireplace | ICC Chimney - RSF Fireplaces




After first burn and 'cure' - Daytime and night time pics... These were taken after install before finishing.