First decision: CUT vs construction backhoe

[rScotty]

It sounds like I want a hydrostatic transmission. Slick hills are what I have. With that said, which tlb in the 35 to 60hp range have hst? Not the l39. The l45 and m59?

Fortunately, that doesn't eliminate the L39. And it would be my own choice for what you want. I believe it has a traditional single plate dry clutch IN ADDITION to their Powershift ....someties Kubota calls that combination a Glideshift.
The only problem with the L39...and the other Kubota true TLBs right up to the new M62 is the initial price.

Adding a foot clutch is what makes an otherwise autoshifting tractor more controllable on hills.
But it is the 4wd that makes it all possible on slick hills. You will get into far more problems with the brakes on a hill than you will with the power.
rScotty

 

[4570Man]

Why would you want a foot clutch? My backhoe doesn’t have one and it would be of no use if it did.

 

[rScotty]

My full-size backhoe has a stick on the steering column with 1-4 gears and 1-4 gears in reverse. There’s no such rodeo action. It’s much smoother than gear drive with a clutch. Probably 99 percent as smooth and precise as a HST. I can hit my machine in 1st gear and it won’t move until I let off the brake. You can easily ease up on the brake for precise movements. Pretty much identical to an automatic transmission vehicle except I have all gears in reverse. Not that that’s a useful feature. I’d rate the power shift in my backhoe or whatever term you want to call it as being equal to a HST. There’s no foot clutch in the backhoe. You’ve got neutral and a button on the loader stick that engages neutral.

That sounds like a very nice full size backhoe. And it sounds like it has a nice transmission. Which model is it? Either I don't see it or don't recognize it on your tractor list.

I'm glad yours that smooth. and glad to hear it. But as good as your torque converter sounds like it works, not all older powshift+torque converters are so smooth. And I'd disagree that a good old single plate foot clutch isn't just on smooth as the best torque converter.

BTW, and completely different subject, have you ever gotten into a rodeo on an icy hillside? Be honest now..... And did it start with either backing down or hitting the brakes? Or both?
Myself, I've been running tractors for 50+ years and haven't had such an event for nigh onto a year now.
rScotty

 

[4570Man]

Mine is a 310j. You can’t move a gear tractor slower than the minimum travel speed without burning the clutch. I can with the PS. I’ve slid down a wet grassy hill once when I still had bald tires on it. It hasn’t happened since I put new ones on it. It was probably in 2wd at the time but I don’t remember. And my full size backhoe performs terrible in mud with 4x4 not making much difference. Both my trucks are a straight shift so I can drive one but I still don’t know why you’d want a clutch with a toque converter or how you’d use it.

 

[rScotty]

Why would you want a foot clutch? My backhoe doesn’t have one and it would be of no use if it did.

Because anytime you are on a hillside with snow over ice you want to do things real carefully. A torque converter always puts a small amount of torque onto the driveshaft. But usually the torque donverter doesn't drive the tractor forward when the machine is at idle because the whole torque converter system depends on the fact that at idle there is enough friction between the rear wheels and the ground so that not enough power is transferred to the drive train to rotate the tires against the mass of the tractor.

On ice that friction between the tires and ground is way less or isn't there at all. So even the small amount of torque on the drive train will start to spin the rear tires even at low idle. You can't avoid doing it....it's a function of having a torque converter. But spinning tires even very slowly just isn't what you want on ice on a hill with a heavy machine.

So that is why a foot clutch is such an advantage. A good single plate dry foot clutch enables you to turn off ALL the torque on the drivetrain when at an idle. And then you can feed just enough in to be useful. A torque converter could be set low enough to do that, but it would need to be somehow adjustable from the cockpit... like a foot clutch is.

A good modern HST will also turn off all the torque to the drivetrain when the machine is at idle. So it's just about as good as having a foot clutch backup. Some HST have both. Ours does.

I'd agree that on most surfaces a torque converter by itself is just fine and even nice to have. It's just ice and snow hillsides that are the exception.
rScotty

 

[4570Man]

Isn’t that what the brakes are for? You can hold the machine locked with the brakes and either ease up on the brakes or increase the throttle until it moves as easy as you want. I agree probably not as smooth as a HST but I’ve never seen a full size backhoe have that option.

 

[rScotty]

It sounds like I want a hydrostatic transmission. Slick hills are what I have. With that said, which tlb in the 35 to 60hp range have hst? Not the l39. The l45 and m59?

THe L39 has powershift plus a foot clutch, so it would work for you. I believe the L45 and M59 and M62 are all HST+. That's Kubota's premium HST transmission and is especially good on hills.
Tractordata.com has good info on model features.
rScotty

 

[Richard]

I'd stay away from a GST unit.

I rented one, long ago. Have hills here. The hill behind my house is (supposedly) the highest hill in the county. I was on it doing some stuff... went to hit forward or reverse for the first time.

I had NO idea that when it changed gears, it would be similar to simply pushing in the clutch and freewheeling. Darn thing started to freewheel backwards while it ever so casually changed gears on me.... I was putting as much pressure on the brakes as I could, using the steering wheel to hold me into the seat while I used even MORE pressure.....

That (L35) was actually the type of machine I was wanting to buy in my beginning.....but after that event I totally struck GST off my list as a "no way" item.

My JCB is simply a click/shift (like your turn signal on your car). Between it, the brakes & foot throttle, I've never felt out of control of it (other than the one time I slid sideways down my (mild) side yard!!! Been raining and it was muddy out. Last time I did that.

 

[Richard]

I understand some industrials have inching clutches (mine does but, it hasn't worked from my first day of ownership)

Do any tractors have inching clutches?

 

[rScotty]

I'd stay away from a GST unit.

I rented one, long ago. Have hills here. The hill behind my house is (supposedly) the highest hill in the county. I was on it doing some stuff... went to hit forward or reverse for the first time.

I had NO idea that when it changed gears, it would be similar to simply pushing in the clutch and freewheeling. Darn thing started to freewheel backwards while it ever so casually changed gears on me.... I was putting as much pressure on the brakes as I could, using the steering wheel to hold me into the seat while I used even MORE pressure.....

That (L35) was actually the type of machine I was wanting to buy in my beginning.....but after that event I totally struck GST off my list as a "no way" item.

My JCB is simply a click/shift (like your turn signal on your car). Between it, the brakes & foot throttle, I've never felt out of control of it (other than the one time I slid sideways down my (mild) side yard!!! Been raining and it was muddy out. Last time I did that.

Yep, that's the problem with regular Powershifts of all kinds. When they get old, the torque converter eventually becomes either lazy or abrupt. A foot clutch at least gives a person the option to override it, but few use them that way. The good news is that powershifts rarely break completely. When new and working as they should they are fine for dirt work. Not so good on ice because of the low friction tire rotation thing I mentione.
Yes, you can use the brakes to moderate the engagement, but it's just one more thing to do. Crossing a sideslope or hillside using the brakes has a problem all it's own.

Folks, I'm not slamming Powershift. It just has problems that we all know about when on icy hillsides. I have one myself. And Powershift won't ever be a a problem for lots of folks in about half the USA. But go back to post #1, the OP for this thread wants to use his tractor in the mountains in a climate known for deep snow and specifically mentions a long sloping driveway and snow removal as being what he needs to do.
rScotty