First experience with Kubota Warranties in 25 years, first bad experience with Kubota

[Like Tractors]

You might know more than me, I’m not sure where the 50% came in at unless that is what the free travel would be. Free travel to me is free travel but you might be a qualified mechanic who can make that determination. I am not a mechanic and don’t claim to be but I had kubotas for over 25 years had any issues with brakes. If free play or lack of free play puts pressure on the brake that is new to me. It is my understanding that you have to apply pressure past the free play to engage or activate the brake, but maybe I am wrong.[/QU

I am going on what you have included in your post, pedal half way down would indicate 50% travel to me. That by itself indicates there is a problem and the machine should be parked until that issue is resolved. I am just applying logic here.

 

[628pm]

Thanks, I still believe that free play is free play, dealer is the one who told me that. Now if the brake pedal was stuck down and you could not pull the pedal back up with no effort I would agree with you. But that was not the case.

But I do thank you for your comments.

 

[art]

Absolutely correct. It is not especially relevant but the BX series of tractors (at least my BX2200) has no indicator that the brakes are applied. Neither did my JD4700 nor my MF2660. That is NOT a very common feature. The 2200 brakes are utterly useless anyway so it makes little difference if they are applied or not. According to Tractor Data this 2680 has wet brakes surely better than my 2200. If they stuck and burned themselves up (especially while the dealer is saying he's busy, let's look into it later in the year...) Kubota is clearly responsible. Everybody, including that rep has a boss. Demand to speak with the rep's boss. There was something wrong with the tractor causing brakes to stick, or WHATEVER the brakes did, and it is fairly obvious the fault is neither yours nor the dealer's. Worst case -- read your guarantee very carefully and take them to small claims court. Brakes are NOT a "wear item" in the reasonable context of the guarantee when the "wear" is not wear but rather damage caused by machine failure.

A couple of subtleties here: that dealer did not break the tractor apart unless/until he knew there was very serious internal damage. At that point he also knew he gave you bad advice suggesting you wait to get it looked at. Another is that regional service reps do not sit behind a desk forever and they do go around among dealers visiting and inspecting problems. I suspect it would make a big difference to be eyeball to eyeball with that rep in the presence of the dealer. Emphasize that you have bought 8 Kubotas, that there won't be any more unless this is resolved properly, etc.

Shame it is not peak "tractor show season." It would be really neat to go to the Kubota tent at the Ohio Farm Science Review or the Pennsylvania Ag Progress days, walk up to the sales reps standing around, ask who is the most senior with the company, and introduce this topic while drawing the maximum crowd of potential customers you possibly can. At least in the Ohio show I have met with the regional service rep for Massey-Ferguson very politely, person to person, in that fashion. I have no doubt you could for Kubota too.

Two bad decisions doesn't make it right or someone else's fault! Dealer prep and dealer service! Not a Kubota problem! What you insinuate here is to blame someone else for a decision they made? I guess I have been seeing that enough in this country! The blame goes to waiting! Bad call! Who drives around with the brakes on? Maybe we need to make a qualification list as to who different products can be sold to! Maybe we should not allow some people to own tractors till they take a qualification test to assure that the decision made would not happen again! Government should be able to handle this as good as the rest of what they do. I would enjoy writing some of the questions and probably it should be at least a 150 questions and require about 60 hours of in class at a minimum! Cost of around 500 dollars to the government for the permit to buy a tractor! That might fix this but I doubt it! Just like the rest of the regulations the government have they just take more money out of our pockets and people are still doing it wrong!

 

[Diggin It]

Two bad decisions doesn't make it right or someone else's fault! Dealer prep and dealer service! Not a Kubota problem! What you insinuate here is to blame someone else for a decision they made?

The blame goes to waiting! Bad call! Who drives around with the brakes on?

We don't know for sure the brakes were really 'on'. We know the pedal didn't seem to return fully. We know the dealer suggested waiting and the OP agreed. We believe that delay may have caused further damage, but we don't really know for sure. If the dealer had taken it in when the OP first called them, would it have been covered under warranty? We'll never know now.

 

[k0ua]

Well, yes, but it's a parking brake light only.

Well, yes that is it's purpose, but the parking brakes ARE the same as the service brake, and if the pedal is sticking down for some reason and will not return you would have that big old illuminated BRAKE light in your face telling you something is wrong.

Well come to think of it, the light would NOT be on , because I believe there is another microswitch on the lever to engage the parking brakes and it wouldn't be actuated. The service brakes DO NOT illuminate each time they are pressed in normal operation. There also is a "split brakes" indicator that does stay illuminated whenever the locking bar for the service brakes is unlocked. This is to warn you that if you are "roading" the tractor at high speed and your brakes are split, you will only be applying one brake at a time which could throw you in the ditch at high speed.

 

[rScotty]

I am not a mechanic and don稚 claim to be but I had kubotas for over 25 years had any issues with brakes. If free play or lack of free play puts pressure on the brake that is new to me. It is my understanding that you have to apply pressure past the free play to engage or activate the brake, but maybe I am wrong.

Unfortunately, lack of free play can put pressure on the brakes. Whether it does or not depends on how much movement is designed into the system and how the spring return force is set up, but a lack of free play could conceivably put pressure on the brakes.
Avoiding activating a system when you don't want to do so is exactly why a little bit of free play is required in every control.

"WEAR ITEMS"
Someone brought up an interesting point about "wear items" that might be worth thinking about We all know that brakes are friction devices, and they do wear.
In fact, everything wears. So it's not whether it wears that makes something a wear item. It's more a case of how much it wears and whether it is set up to be a maintenance item.

For external brake systems the "wear item" definition fits well. External brakes wear enough that anyone would consider them to be wear items. Us consumers know that, and the manufacturers know that. We're so comfortable with it that there's probably a maintenance schedule in the owner's manual to to check the brake shoes for wear every so often.

But are internal wet brakes also wear items? They sure don't normally wear much, and I doubt that anyone is going to split the cases to check them for wear. The whole reason for moving the brakes inside the case is so that they won't require regular maintenance. And it's is successful enough that it's not unusual for wet brakes to last most of the life of the tractor.

What I'm saying is that although external brake shoes have traditionally been wear items, if internal wet brakes are maintenance items then so are gears, bearings, seals, and crankshafts.

rScotty

 

[Diggin It]

"WEAR ITEMS"
Someone brought up an interesting point about "wear items" that might be worth thinking about We all know that brakes are friction devices, and they do wear.
In fact, everything wears. So it's not whether it wears that makes something a wear item. It's more a case of how much it wears and whether it is set up to be a maintenance item.

For external brake systems the "wear item" definition fits well. External brakes wear enough that anyone would consider them to be wear items. Us consumers know that, and the manufacturers know that. We're so comfortable with it that there's probably a maintenance schedule in the owner's manual to to check the brake shoes for wear every so often.

But are internal wet brakes also wear items? They sure don't normally wear much, and I doubt that anyone is going to split the cases to check them for wear. The whole reason for moving the brakes inside the case is so that they won't require regular maintenance. And it's is successful enough that it's not unusual for wet brakes to last most of the life of the tractor.

What I'm saying is that although external brake shoes have traditionally been wear items, if internal wet brakes are maintenance items then so are gears, bearings, seals, and crankshafts.

rScotty

And these are not anything a typical consumer can check.

 

[k0ua]

Bottom line. The operator saw something wrong during the warranty period and called the dealer. Dealer suggested he was busy and this problem could wait. That was a mistake on the part of the dealer. The operator agreed, thinking he would be covered under warranty. That was a mistake on the part of the operator. But he felt assured the problem would be taken care of, just at a later time. He didn't want to be a nasty customer and cause a stink so he waited and continued to use the tractor. I can fully understand that, but it would seem to have contributed to the further wear.

I see that the dealer and the customer and perhaps Kubota have some responsibility in this. SOMETHING was wrong with the tractor IT WAS under warranty. The dealer DID blow off the customer, and did not get the tractor in the shop in a timely manner when he was called about the problem. The customer DID continue to use the tractor, thinking he would be covered no matter what.

If the dealer wants to continue to value this customer, he would do something to make it right. Likewise if Kubota wanted to value this customer they would do their part and offer the parts to the dealer. I can easily see the customers side of the equation, he felt he would be covered under warranty, and didn't press the issue as a favor to the dealer. We don't really know and probably never will know the particulars and causation of the defect, but for darn sure the brake pedal not returning had SOMETHING to do with the problem. A three way, face to face negotiation perhaps would solve this thorny issue.

 

[DK35vince]

We don't know for sure the brakes were really 'on'. We know the pedal didn't seem to return fully. We know the dealer suggested waiting and the OP agreed. .

We Don't ??
The brake peddle wouldn't return, and the brake lining is now burned up.

 

[rScotty]

Well, yes that is it's purpose, but the parking brakes ARE the same as the service brake, and if the pedal is sticking down for some reason and will not return you would have that big old illuminated BRAKE light in your face telling you something is wrong.

Well come to think of it, the light would NOT be on , because I believe there is another microswitch on the lever to engage the parking brakes and it wouldn't be actuated. The service brakes DO NOT illuminate each time they are pressed in normal operation. There also is a "split brakes" indicator that does stay illuminated whenever the locking bar for the service brakes is unlocked. This is to warn you that if you are "roading" the tractor at high speed and your brakes are split, you will only be applying one brake at a time which could throw you in the ditch at high speed.

That's right, the parking brakes are the same as the service brake in every compact tractor I've seen. Brake actuation is then by "either or both", and each system (foot brakes and hand brakes) has its own return spring as well as its own free play requirement & adjustment. BTW, there are often two return springs in series - one for the friction element and one for the lever. Although the service brakes do not illuminate a warning each time they are used, using the parking brake does illuminate a warning light.

I think the reason for the warning light being where it is has to do with the difference in free play and brake return spring force of foot vs hand brake...plus the locking mechanism on the hand brake ..... These are all reasons why it is the free play for the parking brake that a mechanic looks at first when brakes are dragging. So it makes sense that putting the a warning light on that side of the system catches the most problems. You can't catch them all.
rScotty