Fish Tailing

[NewfieDan]

For proper towing, the trailer needs to be as level as possible, loaded as evenly as possible, with a tongue weight of 10-15 percent of the load. If the trailer sits tongue high, or tongue low, it is likely to sway.

 

[Rustyiron]

I towed that trailer with a clamp on bumper hitch (which I assume many of you are too young to have ever seen) on the back bumper of my ten year old 1946 Chevy 2 door sedan with nearly 100k miles on it.

Bird, that was when a bumper was a BUMPER! The decorative crap they call a bumper today is?.., well definetly not a bumper:laughing:

 

[jp2code]

A little extra tongue wait seems to be what fixes the issue.

That last trailer pic was from a borrowed trailer.

I bought one in November that was custom made with brakes so the truck could stop faster with these loads.

In February it was stolen. Thief cut the lock to my front gate, then smashed the trailer tongue lock, and drove off with it from the side of my house.

Cops said if it ever turns up, they'll let me know.

Like that'll ever happen.

FYI: This little Kubota L4400 is about 2000 lbs lighter than the tractor I had before that.

That is an International 784.

As long as you use your head and don't exceed a safe speed (about 40 MPH in my case), you will be able to stay in control of the load.

These new Super Duty, Extreme Edition and super HP work trucks are warping everyone's perception of what is necessary. They are being pushed on the public by the auto industry that is doing whatever it can to milk money out of your pocket.

I haul this truck once or twice a year. I don't try to drag race with it like you see many of these Mega Cab, 4x4, power diesel trucks doing around here.

The rest of the year, I drive my 1-owner 20 year old truck with no payments and no problems.

 

[brown40]

My life-threatening fishtailing was towing a larger dovetail with the tractor with loader and box blade up front, and rotary cutter levered high and hanging out the back--just like pictured. I figured I'd leave the box chained to the bucket and shift everything back a couple feet from 'normal'. Having the load back--and more significantly--the cutter airborne, took that 500# tongue weight the trailer usually had, and turned it into a fluctuating negative load. The trailer livened up going downhill on a gentle bumpy curve. I watched the load dart in and out both sides of the rear view mirror as I kept the front wheels pointed forward and accelerated, hoping the trucks rear end would get enough traction to pull the tongue back down. I got lucky and straightened it. I stopped, put the box on the truck and got the tractor forward and the cutter flat on the deck.
My 5 y/o (now 12) was with me, and thankfully no one else was on the road to get taken out by my lack of experience. The experience haunted me--people could have died on account of my incompetence. No one and nothing ended up hurt--but that was only because of luck/timing/fate. I'd have surely caused damage, if not loss of life to anyone and anything unfortunate enough to be in my vicinity.
I was using a '95 f150 without a brake controller--wasn't close to maxing it or the trailer out--just created a dynamic, unbalanced load with a high center of gravity, because I didn't want to scratch up the truck bed with the box. I started payments on a f350 drw soon after. I'd rather have an empty checkbook than a guilty conscience, and the experience showed me that my former vehicle could be easily overpowered by the load--a smaller load than the l4400.
The truck marketers have gotten people focused on power, but its having enough truck to manage a properly sized and distributed load without getting driven by the load, regardless of what goes wrong. Its not happens under ideal circumstances--its what happens when the shtf and you need to come to a controlled stop quickly. I didn't have the rig for it.

 

[Norm W]

Around my neck of the woods all of the attachments must be down on the deck and secured. A tractor with a loader and a brush hog more than 10K would need six chains. Each corner of the tractor, one on the loader and one on the cutter. If it is under 10K four chains, two on the tractor. That means a long enough trailer, tie downs, and brakes on all trailer wheels. It isn't just safer, it is the law. If you have an accident and these regs aren't met, guess who Rosco P. is going to had the safe driving awards. The insurance co. might take a dim view of it too.

 

[ultrarunner]

Good to know how strict or lax various jurisdictions are when it comes to securing a load...

We have landscape trailers around here where the mowers/tractors are not even secured... the just tilt up the ramp and drive to the next job... often wondered about that... the screened in trailers box the equipment in... it's just there is nothing to hold it there should the trailer upset.

 

[Norm W]

Their insurance co. would hang them out to dry if they have an accident. Who ever they hit would own the business.

 

[MossRoad]

I was 16 years old when my Dad bought a service station and we hauled our own garbage and such to the dump on a little two wheeled trailer. I towed that trailer with a clamp on bumper hitch (which I assume many of you are too young to have ever seen) ....

Bird, my dad put one of those on a Volkswagen bus and we towed an old 50's pickup bed converted to trailer with that for Boy Scout camp several times. That bus didn't go very fast. :laughing: I do remember my dad rearranging the load so that the rear of the bus didn't squat too much. I can't imagine towing anything with a 70's VW bus but he did it.

 

[ultrarunner]

Their insurance co. would hang them out to dry if they have an accident. Who ever they hit would own the business.

You would think so... it just doesn't seem to be the case... heck... don't even have to be a citizen or a green card to get a driver's license or take the Bar Exam...

We have had a few problems with undocumented drivers and the DMV, Police and ICE would do nothing... I guess if you have little or nothing to lose... no need to worry about lawsuits or insurance?

 

[MossRoad]

That's what I was thinking, but I wanted to verify. I try not to drive the tractor too far up, because it can put too much load on the truck's suspension. The trailer's axles are 3500 each, which is way more than what the truck can take....

Your axles are rated at 3500 each, so 7000# less the weight of the trailer, which is probably 1500-2000#, so your usable load on that trailer is probably between 5000 and 5500#.

Figure 3300# for the tractor alone (from TractorData specs)
TractorData.com Kubota L4400 tractor information
Plus your loader weight and the trailer is probably still well within limits.

So, 5000# trailer w/load take 10% for tongue weight and that would be about 500#.

Anyhow, if I have trouble getting the load far enough forward, sometimes I'll back the tractor on and that lets me get the weight farther forward. It all depends on your attachments, etc...

As to how much weight that specific truck in the pictures can handle, its probably a topic for another very long thread. :laughing:

 

[aczlan]

As to how much weight that specific truck in the pictures can handle, its probably a topic for another very long thread. :laughing:

Like this (VERY LONG) one: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/.../284456-share-pics-people-hauling-towing.html

Aaron Z

 

[MikePA]

These new Super Duty, Extreme Edition and super HP work trucks are warping everyone's perception of what is necessary. They are being pushed on the public by the auto industry that is doing whatever it can to milk money out of your pocket.

I agree!

Why, just the other day, I was driving past the Chevy dealer in my dependable, 35 year old Chevy Luv, towing my Cat D3 on my landscape trailer when the salesman threw spike strips in front of me, forcing me to slam on the brakes. He dragged me out of the truck and forced me, I tell ya he forced me, to buy a brand new, Duramax dually, crew cab. What's the world coming to. :laughing:

EDIT: Come on. No one is 'forced' to buy a new truck with all the options, nor do they have one 'pushed' on them. What is necessary is a matter of numbers, not marketing. As has been mentioned in almost every towing thread, the important issue is not what you can tow, it's what you can stop. People can claim they 'only' tow with an overloaded trailer and overloaded tow vehicle 'a few times' a year and 'only' on back roads, going 40 mph or less. Tell that to the kid, vehicle, animal that darts in front of you and forces you to brake hard or your reflexes cause you to try and avoid it.

 

[zing]

A little extra tongue wait seems to be what fixes the issue.

That last trailer pic was from a borrowed trailer.

I bought one in November that was custom made with brakes so the truck could stop faster with these loads.

In February it was stolen. Thief cut the lock to my front gate, then smashed the trailer tongue lock, and drove off with it from the side of my house.

Cops said if it ever turns up, they'll let me know.

Like that'll ever happen.

FYI: This little Kubota L4400 is about 2000 lbs lighter than the tractor I had before that.

That is an International 784.

As long as you use your head and don't exceed a safe speed (about 40 MPH in my case), you will be able to stay in control of the load.

These new Super Duty, Extreme Edition and super HP work trucks are warping everyone's perception of what is necessary. They are being pushed on the public by the auto industry that is doing whatever it can to milk money out of your pocket.

I haul this truck once or twice a year. I don't try to drag race with it like you see many of these Mega Cab, 4x4, power diesel trucks doing around here.

The rest of the year, I drive my 1-owner 20 year old truck with no payments and no problems.

Hey, not sure I am following.
- The bottom picture is your old tractor on your old trailer.
- The middle picture is the new tractor on the new trailer with brakes that got stolen.
- The top picture is the new tractor on the old trailer, since the new trailer got stolen.
Is that correct?

Based on that, I can see why you want to keep the old reliable truck that is paid for, instead of paying big bucks for a heavy duty truck that will be used to tow once or twice a year. If the load is balanced properly, you are pushing it legally, but if you travel seldom, slow and on a known route you are probably safe. Just barely though, and based on your being very careful of load balance and speed. Also keep the bushhog flat on the deck because when it is up in the air it will bounce and lift on the tongue.

My primary question is that you pointed out the brakes on the new (stolen) trailer. Does that mean your older trailer doesn't have brakes? If so, then there is no way you should be on the road towing that load on that trailer with that truck.

BTW, sorry to hear about your trailer. Thieves suck and should be shot.

 

[MossRoad]

Like this (VERY LONG) one: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/.../284456-share-pics-people-hauling-towing.html

Aaron Z

Oohhh.... that's about as long as they get! :laughing:

 

[jp2code]

zing, you are correct on all accounts.

The old trailer is my dad's that he had built in the 80s. It does not have brakes, lights, tags, registration, or even decent tires.

It was a big step for me getting a trailer with brakes custom made so I could pull my tractor once a year. You'd think a trailer with brakes wouldn't be a big deal, but finding a trailer with brakes around here is like finding hen's teeth.

What's more, there aren't even any places in this town of 70,000 people that will rent a trailer except U-Haul, and they will not rent one to someone pulling a tractor. I tried.

I'll get another trailer with brakes soon. I've got some equipment on Craigslist that I'm trying to sell, but no interest yet. I'm even offering my items as trade for a trailer with brakes. Unless someone comes forward with something to trade, I'm going to be stuck having to save up for another one - for some thief to come and take. I'm sure he'll be excited when he sees I got another trailer.

 

[buickanddeere]

Pump the trailer tires up to max rated. What kind of tires on the trailer, old truck or car tires? radial or bias trailer tires ?
As previously stated, roll the center of gravity forward.

 

[jp2code]

You don't want to know what the tires are like. My dad should be shot for letting anyone borrow a trailer in that sort of condition. Mix and match tires from the junk pile.

 

[Raspy]

Trailer brakes are a must for that load!!! Without trailer brakes, if you try to stop fast on a curve, it's crash time. And if you start to get fishtailing, apply the trailer brakes with the button on the controller. That will immediately straighten it out.

You probably won't get a full 10% tongue weight on that Nissan without overloading it. With a total gross trailer weight of around 7-8,000 lbs you'll be looking at 7-800 lbs on the hitch. By the time you get that much, the hitch weight will start causing handling problems. But I bet you can find a compromise that will do OK at low speeds and with trailer brakes. Just don't try to make an emergency maneuver at speed.

 

[NorEaster]

Just FYI there is a Big Tex dealer in Minden, LA, 70 miles from Longview. Hope you didn't pay out too much for the trailer.

 

[jp2code]

I think the basic trailer was $1700. After adding electric brakes, ramps, taxes and registration, it jumped all the way up to $2200 out the door.

I can get another one. I just need to figure out how to store it so someone doesn't take it away like the last one.