Fixed the hose

[woodlandfarms]

Just an update and notes for anyone who has yet to do this. I went out and bought angled head wrenches as well as crows feet for my ratchet. A very expensive tool day. I think those S wrenches would be cool as well but could not find them locally.

None of the above wrenches work well. PT put those hoses in the darndest places, but with a bit of patience, a lot of cursing, and just plain stuborness, you can catch the heads and reef them out. The are on strong, had to double wrench to get enough pressure to break them free. Getting them back on was an equal challenge, but clearly the new hose was much more pliable. I was afraid of this whole process, but in the end, it was 2 hours and a learning experience I can and will repeat. Oh, in case someone reads this down the road for research. JJ had a great idea dealing with pulling hoses. He suggested to couple them together then pull them through. The old pulling the new in. Only problem is getting the right length of hose. Maybe Terry has the specs.

My tractor is used, and its history is questionable. I found additional hoses that were worn and cracked. I will slowly start the replacement process. I am still trying to track all my leaks.

Carl

 

[Barryh]

Just an update and notes for anyone who has yet to do this. I went out and bought angled head wrenches as well as crows feet for my ratchet. A very expensive tool day. I think those S wrenches would be cool as well but could not find them locally.

None of the above wrenches work well. PT put those hoses in the darndest places, but with a bit of patience, a lot of cursing, and just plain stuborness, you can catch the heads and reef them out. The are on strong, had to double wrench to get enough pressure to break them free. Getting them back on was an equal challenge, but clearly the new hose was much more pliable. I was afraid of this whole process, but in the end, it was 2 hours and a learning experience I can and will repeat. Oh, in case someone reads this down the road for research. JJ had a great idea dealing with pulling hoses. He suggested to couple them together then pull them through. The old pulling the new in. Only problem is getting the right length of hose. Maybe Terry has the specs.

My tractor is used, and its history is questionable. I found additional hoses that were worn and cracked. I will slowly start the replacement process. I am still trying to track all my leaks.

Carl

I've gotta ask once again. With all of the hydraulic problems you seem to be having, have you added or looked into the colored dye to help you track the leaks in your hydraulic system?? Seems like almost a must get.... in your situation

 

[BobRip]

My tractor is used, and its history is questionable. I found additional hoses that were worn and cracked. I will slowly start the replacement process. I am still trying to track all my leaks.

Carl

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but cracking of the outer covering is not an indication of imminent failure. Just under that is a metal webbing and then under that is another rubber jacket. These actually contain the pressure and stop the leaks respectively.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Yes, I have the dye kit. but right now I am trying to fix the obvious leaks. Will let you know when I put the die kit in.

As for the covering, it was explained to me that the outer cover is for wear, the wire is wear and pressure, and the inner is the actual seal.

But, when the outside is cracked, and cracks when it moves, it has either been exposed to the elements too long or is in a serious heat situation. Either way those things that impact the outer rubber can impact the inner rubber and it should be replaced. At least that is what the Hydraulics shop told me today...

 

[Barryh]

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but cracking of the outer covering is not an indication of imminent failure. Just under that is a metal webbing and then under that is another rubber jacket. These actually contain the pressure and stop the leaks respectively.

You’re probably right, but just as with a weather checked tire. Sounds like it may be loosing its elasticity, which could put more stress on the inter metal webbing and inner rubber layer, which may also be doing the same thing. Hard to say... I would also vote to replace it.

 

[Barryh]

Yes, I have the dye kit. but right now I am trying to fix the obvious leaks. Will let you know when I put the die kit in.

As for the covering, it was explained to me that the outer cover is for wear, the wire is wear and pressure, and the inner is the actual seal.

But, when the outside is cracked, and cracks when it moves, it has either been exposed to the elements too long or is in a serious heat situation. Either way those things that impact the outer rubber can impact the inner rubber and it should be replaced. At least that is what the Hydraulics shop told me today...

Hmmm looks like we were typing about the same time. That's how I see also.

 

[ponytug]

It is a great trick. J.J. is a great resource!

Another tip: You can pull a third hose through, measure the old one, get a matching hose made, and then use the third one to pull the new one through...Just make sure hose #3 is too long for the job.

All the best,

Peter

Just an update and notes for anyone who has yet to do this. I went out and bought angled head wrenches as well as crows feet for my ratchet. A very expensive tool day. I think those S wrenches would be cool as well but could not find them locally.

None of the above wrenches work well. PT put those hoses in the darndest places, but with a bit of patience, a lot of cursing, and just plain stuborness, you can catch the heads and reef them out. The are on strong, had to double wrench to get enough pressure to break them free. Getting them back on was an equal challenge, but clearly the new hose was much more pliable. I was afraid of this whole process, but in the end, it was 2 hours and a learning experience I can and will repeat. Oh, in case someone reads this down the road for research. JJ had a great idea dealing with pulling hoses. He suggested to couple them together then pull them through. The old pulling the new in. Only problem is getting the right length of hose. Maybe Terry has the specs.

My tractor is used, and its history is questionable. I found additional hoses that were worn and cracked. I will slowly start the replacement process. I am still trying to track all my leaks.

Carl

 

[BobRip]

Yes, I have the dye kit. but right now I am trying to fix the obvious leaks. Will let you know when I put the die kit in.

As for the covering, it was explained to me that the outer cover is for wear, the wire is wear and pressure, and the inner is the actual seal.

But, when the outside is cracked, and cracks when it moves, it has either been exposed to the elements too long or is in a serious heat situation. Either way those things that impact the outer rubber can impact the inner rubber and it should be replaced. At least that is what the Hydraulics shop told me today...

These are good points and probably correct. I have a hose on the quick attach section which is cracked. Since it is not vital, I am going to see what it does. I have a spare.

 

[J_J]

Yes, I have the dye kit. but right now I am trying to fix the obvious leaks. Will let you know when I put the die kit in.

As for the covering, it was explained to me that the outer cover is for wear, the wire is wear and pressure, and the inner is the actual seal.

But, when the outside is cracked, and cracks when it moves, it has either been exposed to the elements too long or is in a serious heat situation. Either way those things that impact the outer rubber can impact the inner rubber and it should be replaced. At least that is what the Hydraulics shop told me today...

I don't know if you know this, but there are 1, 2, and 3 wire hoses, with the 3 wire hose being the strongest and least bendable. I would suggest that in any spot that is being rubbed, to add some extra protection, such as a sleeve. If it goes through a hole, or over a sharp projection, line the hole or edge with some kind of protection. Ozone is a problem with rubber, and anything you can do to keep the Ozone out would be beneficial. Those hoses can be very expensive, so it's a good idea to shop around. Some places will match Internet prices, but you have to ask. If they think you will do your business on the Internet, they may cut you a deal. In fact, if you have the time. Surplus Hydraulics, Northern Tools, and Baileys have the hoses, if you know the length and the type fittings. I am thinking that there is a spray to spray on those hoses kept outside, to cut down on UV rays that will eventually break down the rubber and cause cracking and deterioration. That lets water in and the steel starts to rust and you know the rest.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Thanks for all the great info. I am pretty sure I have a slow drip in my tunnel. Man, that did not sound good.. Hope everyone gets what I mean. Now the question is how to find which is the offending hose.

I kinda figured out what is going on with my PT. Its age is unknown. It is known that the engine was new in 2004 and then the tractor was set outside to rot with the new engine.

I am thinking that all of those seals and hoses have rotted away, and that it did not show up when PT went through the machine, but now with 40 hours on it the hoses and seals are starting to fail.

Kinda a big bummer as I would think PT would have known this and just replaced these cheap gaskets and such. But whatever, still have a great tractor at a good price...

Carl

 

[toy]

Thanks for all the great info. I am pretty sure I have a slow drip in my tunnel. Man, that did not sound good.. Hope everyone gets what I mean. Now the question is how to find which is the offending hose.

I kinda figured out what is going on with my PT. Its age is unknown. It is known that the engine was new in 2004 and then the tractor was set outside to rot with the new engine.

I am thinking that all of those seals and hoses have rotted away, and that it did not show up when PT went through the machine, but now with 40 hours on it the hoses and seals are starting to fail.

Kinda a big bummer as I would think PT would have known this and just replaced these cheap gaskets and such. But whatever, still have a great tractor at a good price...

Carl

have someone watch the drip as you use one function at a time to see if you can tell when there is an increase in the frequency of the drip. If you can discern which function increases the drip flow that is a start. If by that you can't figure out which hose it is, then jog that function and watch the hoses you might be able to see which hose it is when it flexes when pressure hits it. If you still haven't figured it out then go to the cylinder that you are operating when the leak increases and follow the hoses back to the tunnel. If the leak increases when you extend the cylinder then the leak is the bottom hose on the cylinder if it is when you retract the cylinder then it is the top hose. if while following it back it comes to a valve then the hose that feeds that valve that goes through the tunnel is probably the one. Sometimes I have seen the hoses taken loose one at a time and pulled back and inspected for breaks or abrassions. Don't pull the hose ends back into the tunnel covering. Using the old hose to pull the new hose in is a good idea, After you have fixed the leak don't throw the old hose away if you can store it, you can use it as the third hose at a later time to pull another leaking hose out so you can measure it and get the same length back. I try to stay with the same length hose and try to rout it back in the same position as it was taken out. The only time i wouldn't do this if the hose looks like it had gotten pinched someway in the normal use of the machine. If the hose is frayed from rubbing then try to locate the place where the rubbing took place on the machine and see if there is a sharp edge that the hose rubs against and see if you can remedy that. It would be nice to have a spare hose of each size and length that is on your machine that way it would eliminate the down time of having to go get a new hose just put the spare on and at a later time you could restock your spare hose.

 

[J_J]

Thanks for all the great info. I am pretty sure I have a slow drip in my tunnel. Man, that did not sound good.. Hope everyone gets what I mean. Now the question is how to find which is the offending hose.

I kinda figured out what is going on with my PT. Its age is unknown. It is known that the engine was new in 2004 and then the tractor was set outside to rot with the new engine.

I am thinking that all of those seals and hoses have rotted away, and that it did not show up when PT went through the machine, but now with 40 hours on it the hoses and seals are starting to fail.

Kinda a big bummer as I would think PT would have known this and just replaced these cheap gaskets and such. But whatever, still have a great tractor at a good price...

Carl

Carl,

Just a little curious, did PT give you any kind of warranty, or did you buy AS IS. They probably knew that would happen. It probably had oil all over the place when they got it back, and just cleaned it up, hoping a buyer would take it off their hands. They probably did not run the machine more than a couple of hours before they put it up for sale. You already have a list of fixes, what does PT say about that. Did they offer any help? They have a list of the serial numbers, and they know how old it is. They claim they don't know how old my 1445 is, that has the 45 HP gas engine, with radiator. I am guessing between 1988 to 1990. I have replaced two hydraulic motors, and many hoses, and rebuilt cylinders. replaced the tilt assembly. and have the old three point attachment hook up to bang my knuckles on.

 

[woodlandfarms]

JJ
Short answer is a bit of yes and no. The things they repaired would be covered for 90 days but that is that.

Long story is that I bought this tractor from Ksimolo. Ken had won a bid on ebay for 2 1850's One running, one for parts. Ken decided to have both tractors up and running to have his brother purchase one. Brother backs out, Ken offers it to me as I was interested in the ebay listing as well. Ken put a TON of money into fixing mine up. My tractors history is kind of unkown. The ID tags were removed / lost a long time ago. The previous owner ran a slope mowing company and this tractor traveled the US. He claims he got 260 hours on the machine before the engine failed. The engine was replaced by Deutz for free, but mis-installed by the owner which led to an electrical fire. Tractor was parked outside and slowly stripped for parts. I think that the fire happened in 2004.

Anyway, Ken plunked a lot of coin into fixing both his and mine up (mine much more than his). It was quite gracious of Ken and he is a **** of a guy if I don't say so myself.

I think that Ken is also suffering from some oil leaks. I don't think his sat for as long as mine did, but I, in speaking for Ken, feel that PT did a poor job of teching the tractors once they were finished in Taz. I know Ken has a few leaks in his, I don't know how severe his are. I have not taken my tractor to get the welding done yet. I have to get back to LA so trying to maximize seat time and not down time...

For reference. I have 40+ hours on my PT and have used 2 cases of oil. I think I figured I was averaging a quart an hour.

As each leak is fixed, a new one pops up. I now see a leak in the square box on top of the tram pump. One of the side thingy's is leaking. Ohhhh grumble...

 

[KentT]

JJ

Long story is that I bought this tractor from Ksimolo. Ken had won a bid on ebay for 2 1850's One running, one for parts............
......................
For reference. I have 40+ hours on my PT and have used 2 cases of oil. I think I figured I was averaging a quart an hour.

As each leak is fixed, a new one pops up. I now see a leak in the square box on top of the tram pump. One of the side thingy's is leaking. Ohhhh grumble...

Man, that's a lot of oil leaking out... that certainly quantifies your issues!

I remember when those two PTs were on eBay -- someone in the South (Georgia, South Carolina, perhaps) as I recall...

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

JJ
I, in speaking for Ken, feel that PT did a poor job of teching the tractors once they were finished in Taz. I know Ken has a few leaks in his, I don't know how severe his are.

As each leak is fixed, a new one pops up....

I'm sure you are frustrated by recurring problems, but it sounds as if the machine was pretty badly mistreated. Someone "teching" a machine has to be a bit clairvoyant to find a leak that hasn't happened yet, but I suppose there are various suspect areas to check.
When I was at PT a few years ago, I saw an 1845 that they were rebuilding so that it was equivalent to a new machine, and later had it for sale. If yours had that treatment, I doubt you'd have the problems, but it would have cost a ton more. Hope you catch the problems without too much down time.

 

[ponytug]

Dear Carl,

You have probably done this, but have you check the pressure on the various hydraulic sub-systems? The "keeps springing new leaks" reminds me of overpressure problems.

Then again, if it caught fire, lots of rubber could have gotten 'cooked'.

No ID tags, second engine; I finally understand how it is that PT couldn't assess your vintage. I had wondered.

All the best,

Peter

JJ

As each leak is fixed, a new one pops up. I now see a leak in the square box on top of the tram pump. One of the side thingy's is leaking. Ohhhh grumble...

 

[Red Zebra]

JJ
As each leak is fixed, a new one pops up. I now see a leak in the square box on top of the tram pump. One of the side thingy's is leaking. Ohhhh grumble...

You seem so calm....I would have taken a blow torch and sawzall to it by now! Seriously, I admire your resolve. I've been trying to chase down a water leak in my wife's car for the past two weeks....No I wont't trade problems with you!

 

[woodlandfarms]

Its kinda funny. My wife informed me that every vehicle I own has some sort of major oil leak. And generally unfixable. My Charger leaks from the transmission oil pan (common on MOPAR) and also from the valve covers (common on mopar when you put fancy aluminum covers on). My Ford 150 leaks from the tranny (a quart every now and then) and my little mazda leaks it into the heads... I think it is my curse... just one I accept any more...

 

[cqaigy2]

Its kinda funny. My wife informed me that every vehicle I own has some sort of major oil leak. And generally unfixable. My Charger leaks from the transmission oil pan (common on MOPAR) and also from the valve covers (common on mopar when you put fancy aluminum covers on). My Ford 150 leaks from the tranny (a quart every now and then) and my little mazda leaks it into the heads... I think it is my curse... just one I accept any more...

Maybe it's just a phase your going thru.

I had a 47 Willeys leaked everywhere,71 Torino(351 Cleveland) tranny and Volkswagen Dasher engine blowby, that all leaked. I got rid of the Dasher when somebody walking nearby mentioned something about the exxon valdese.

 

[Barryh]

Its kinda funny. My wife informed me that every vehicle I own has some sort of major oil leak. And generally unfixable. My Charger leaks from the transmission oil pan (common on MOPAR) and also from the valve covers (common on mopar when you put fancy aluminum covers on). My Ford 150 leaks from the tranny (a quart every now and then) and my little mazda leaks it into the heads... I think it is my curse... just one I accept any more...

Carl , probably just a run of bad luck.

I've owned 3- Ford Broncos, 1- Lincoln Navigator 3- Ford F-150's 2- Ford Vans. None of them leaked any oil anywhere, or gave me any problems except for a few minor things after racking up very high mileage common on most vehicles water pump etc.

I also owned four 1970 Barracudas 3 stock 1 modified 1 convertible .... all ran great except for one, had the stock carter 4- Barrel on it. It just ran a little rough. Hang in there.