Ford 1700 just quit while brush hogging

[jpilk99]

Was out doing my normal brush hogging, all going fine/normal, when I went over a section of raise up dirt that bogged down the machine. I assumed it was just a small mound and after restarting without PTO engaged that I'd drive forward to smooth ground and continue --- but machine is 100% caput. No electricals, no lights, no start, no nothing. Battery is strong. Checked all 4 fuses = good. Is there some failsafe that kicks in to keep machine from doing something bad to itself that I"m not aware of?

Thanks for any help.

Jay

 

[kirkawilson]

Neutral safety switch?

 

[jpilk99]

I have the machine in neutral

 

[Harry in Ky]

If you have no electrics, start there. Battery cables or main wiring/fusible link. That sort of thing. Not safety switches.

 

[jpilk99]

If you have no electrics, start there. Battery cables or main wiring/fusible link. That sort of thing. Not safety switches.

Don't disagree. Battery cables on battery are snug. Just weird how I was going along just fine, got bogged down on a little dirt, she quit - and then dead machine. Time to investigate more deeply.......

 

[Harry in Ky]

Battery cables need to more than just tight to function. That's not the only criteria. Unless you hit something you're not aware of at the time, it's probably unrelated. Just a glitch somewhere that was going to happen sooner or later anyway.

 

[TractorTech]

Was out doing my normal brush hogging, all going fine/normal, when I went over a section of raise up dirt that bogged down the machine. I assumed it was just a small mound and after restarting without PTO engaged that I'd drive forward to smooth ground and continue --- but machine is 100% caput. No electricals, no lights, no start, no nothing. Battery is strong. Checked all 4 fuses = good. Is there some failsafe that kicks in to keep machine from doing something bad to itself that I"m not aware of?

Thanks for any help.

Jay

There is nothing on a 1700 that will do that. No electrics if checked everything else would lead me to check the ground on the frame and make sure the battery clamps and posts are clean.

 

[JC-jetro]

Make sure Clutch Neutral switch is working. It is a normally open switch, when clutch is pressed it will close to complete the circuit. 1700 does not have any seat safety or other safety switches. Some cable most likely got snagged..need to check that. Does the needle on heat move when you put the switch is on position? two lights, one for Alt and one for oil pressure, do they illuminate when you put the key in on position? that operation has nothing to do with Neutral switch and if so then there must be a break in the line someplace that you need to narrow it down. Also check to see if you get juice at the switch. It is very easy to remove the fuel tank to have easy access to all the wires behind the dash and cowling.

 

[jpilk99]

Make sure Clutch Neutral switch is working. It is a normally open switch, when clutch is pressed it will close to complete the circuit. 1700 does not have any seat safety or other safety switches. Some cable most likely got snagged..need to check that. Does the needle on heat move when you put the switch is on position? two lights, one for Alt and one for oil pressure, do they illuminate when you put the key in on position? that operation has nothing to do with Neutral switch and if so then there must be a break in the line someplace that you need to narrow it down. Also check to see if you get juice at the switch. It is very easy to remove the fuel tank to have easy access to all the wires behind the dash and cowling.

Nothing comes on when the key is turned to ON position; neither of the two red lights, guages, nothing...

 

[JC-jetro]

Nothing comes on when the key is turned to ON position; neither of the two red lights, guages, nothing...

It must be electrical , you had some ground interference with the bottom of tractor and chasis. Follow the main power line from the left side of the tractor as it enters the back of the dash. Do check the ground, alternately you can take a jumper cable and go from battery negative to some good ground to see if you get juice behind dash. if you don't with additional ground then you need to follow power or positive line. Your switch must have 12 volt at all times. I don't know if there is a main fusible link or fuse for 1700 as I never seen it. I think something got yanked out of place when you engaged the ground somehow.

 

[Btown]

Just from my experience. Did you shut off the PTO. I know my 1920 won’t start with it on. Does your 1700 have lights, and if it does do they turn on.

 

[TractorTech]

Just from my experience. Did you shut off the PTO. I know my 1920 won’t start with it on. Does your 1700 have lights, and if it does do they turn on.

Great question, but the 1700 has only one safety switch and that is the neutral start switch. The 20 series was the first with the added safetys beyond starting.

 

[JC-jetro]

Just from my experience. Did you shut off the PTO. I know my 1920 won’t start with it on. Does your 1700 have lights, and if it does do they turn on.

That is not correct statement for 1700. On many tractors such as my Kubota if PTO lever/switch is on then I cannot start the tractor.

On 1700 PTO is transmission driven and is purely mechanical. I can start the tractor both in gear or Neutral or even PTO engaged just as I long I compress the clutch pedal fully where it makes the neutral safety switch. That is no different than let say on my manual transmission car that it can be in 1st gear and I can still turn it on but clutch must be fully pressed.

 

[JC-jetro]

Great question, but the 1700 has only one safety switch and that is the neutral start switch. The 20 series was the first with the added safetys beyond starting.

I corroborate that with my 1700. I was actually in the barn and hot conductor going to the dash is so well protected following the chassis routing but there is a slight possibility some brush got caught on the bottom and jerked a ground or hot wire. OP need to follow the routing and check them out. He need to have voltage right at the switch that he can easily check it with a 12 volt light probe.

 

[jpilk99]

I corroborate that with my 1700. I was actually in the barn and hot conductor going to the dash is so well protected following the chassis routing but there is a slight possibility some brush got caught on the bottom and jerked a ground or hot wire. OP need to follow the routing and check them out. He need to have voltage right at the switch that he can easily check it with a 12 volt light probe.

I believe I found the issue. I chased the POS wiring to the back of the alternator and found the “BAT” pole was naked, with what appears to be a broken threaded post, rust nut, and a connector hanging in the breeze; assumedly previously connected to said BAT post. See pics.

Only question: seems I have to open up alternator to get to that threaded bolt to replace, and I do not enjoy these jobs - keeping armatures in place and brushes/magnets from springing out of place. Wish I could somehow thread a new nut with some connecting hardware to “make the connection” with the threaded post…. Maybe something at Lowes/hardware shop??

 

[JC-jetro]

I believe I found the issue. I chased the POS wiring to the back of the alternator and found the “BAT” pole was naked, with what appears to be a broken threaded post, rust nut, and a connector hanging in the breeze; assumedly previously connected to said BAT post. See pics.

Only question: seems I have to open up alternator to get to that threaded bolt to replace, and I do not enjoy these jobs - keeping armatures in place and brushes/magnets from springing out of place. Wish I could somehow thread a new nut with some connecting hardware to “make the connection” with the threaded post…. Maybe something at Lowes/hardware shop??

Yup, I think you are in the right track. i don't recommend taking anything apart. I zoomed in and it seems you have enough thread on the positive post. I just clean it up good with dremmel and wire brush and find a nut that fits it. I would wire brush the eyelet or crimp a new one as they are readily available in Lowes or even HF. You will not be able to find that stud easily and once you open it up you are in a point of no return. Below is how the wires need to land. It would not hurt to smear a thin coat of grease on the new bolts to mitigate the future rust if you wish. I hope she'll start with the first try.

 

[jpilk99]

Dang. It still won’t run - zero electricals with the battery ready 12.6v. I thought for sure that wire hanging out in space off the BAT pole on the back of the alternator was it.

Kept tracing up to the back of the dash, don’t see anything obvious (disconnected or broken wire). Ground cable is solid to frame. Fuses are fine.

No idea what to check next…

 

[jpilk99]

Just from my experience. Did you shut off the PTO. I know my 1920 won’t start with it on. Does your 1700 have lights, and if it does do they turn on.

PTO is disengaged. Good idea

 

[TractorTech]

Again, the 1700 doesn’t have a PTO safety switch, but good idea to disengage.

Do you have a voltmeter or test light? Using one of those, test for voltage at the starter big top lug. If you have 12v +/-, follow the smaller lead off of the lug up to the ignition switch and check for breaks in that line. Check for voltage at the ignition lug. This is a the trace to look it if you haven’t done so already. If any of those points fail to produce 12v, then you have your problem narrowed down.

 

[jpilk99]

Again, the 1700 doesn’t have a PTO safety switch, but good idea to disengage.

Do you have a voltmeter or test light? Using one of those, test for voltage at the starter big top lug. If you have 12v +/-, follow the smaller lead off of the lug up to the ignition switch and check for breaks in that line. Check for voltage at the ignition lug. This is a the trace to look it if you haven’t done so already. If any of those points fail to produce 12v, then you have your problem narrowed down.

When you say, "check for voltage at the ignition lug" I'm assuming you mean one of the pins on the back of the ignition switch? Can you tell on the image I attached which is that lug? (Sorry if I'm a stooopid)