Ford 5000 / 256CI engine rebuild questions

[LD1]

Getting ready for a overhaul. Actually its in my 5500 backhoe. 256CI I believe.

Not ready to order parts just yet, as I need to get the crank out and ground to know what size bearings I will need. But was looking at some kits, and it seems they have std, .010, up to 0.030 for the pistons/rings. But there is also a re-sleeve kit.

Do these blocks have sleeves? or are the sleeves required if needing to go more than .030? And if the block does have sleeves, I assume you can bore it up to 0.30 before needing a new one? Is that correct?

Gonna be at least a week before I can get tore into it. Planning on doing the head/valves as well. Any other things that should be done or looked that dont come standard in a "premium" kit?

 

[RickB]

This engine is parent bore design, no sleeves. It is fairly common for these blocks to suffer from cavitation erosion which causes leaks into the combustion chamber. Because of this, it is good practice to bore the block and sleeve back to standard. However, the availability of oversized pistons & rings indicates that not everyone goes the resleeve route. it all boils down to how you feel about the general health of the block and whether the coolant has been dosed with DCA/SCA additives either as sold or as poured.

 

[LD1]

Actually thinking it might me a 233 engine now. The block casting is c5nn6015e

Same engine design and advice above?

 

[RickB]

Yes, except your odds are better with a simple bore & oversize strategy on a 233. Still a crapshoot.

233 cu. in. ENGINE serial number has an 'R' prefix.
256 cu. in. ENGINE serial number has an 'E' prefix and serial numbers began at 000001.

"For an interim period previous model and new model tractors were produced simultaneously, however there were no previous model tractors produced with a date code after 8G19B."

Taken from the New Model Supplement to the 2000-5000 service manual. Supplement dated 9/68.

 

[LD1]

Thanks. Will check engine serial probably after the holidays. I'm in no rush. Ain't gonna order anything till I completely tear it down. Then a simple bore measure will tell me for sure.

Wish I had more cubes. Would be sweet to have a 100hp turbo they put in the 755's.

Could just be the wore out motor, but the 5500 is a turd in road gear on even a slight grade. Downhill is awesome though

 

[LD1]

Definitely a 233. 4.2" bore for sure.

Blew this thing up getting stuck in the pond and being nose down I think I starved the pump. Kept running it a bit too long trying to get out. 7000hrs ald lots of blowby she was tired anyway. I suspected it has never been rebuilt and tearing it apart confirms that. Crank and bore are still oem sizes.

#4 rod bearings seized and spun. Rod don't look bad. Weather rod journals will get oversized will be at the discretion of the machine shop.

So, who makes the best manual for engine rebuilding on The 233. All the torque specs and timing info of the valves, injector pump, and balancer assembly thing that runs off a gear in the middle of the crank?

 

[LD1]

One more question to add to the "best manual" question.

Best rebuild kit? Or best place to source from?

Typically with auto engines I have always let the machine shop supply appropriate bearings so I know all is good. But old Chevy 350 and dodge 360 parts are easier to come by and harder to screw up.

Some 233 kits I see come with bearings of whatever size you spec, some come without. So what would you do? Get a kit without and let machine shop supply? Or wait til crank is ground and order a kit with bearings?

As to kits, just how many mfgs are there. See alot of tisco kits from various sources all pretty close on price. Some kits also in similar price range done specify mfg. Assume tisco is a pretty good kit? Buy from whoever has the bet price for the same level tisco kit?

 

[Soundguy]

Does your machine have screw in core plugs. ( I'm presuming)

 

[LD1]

Yes. What does that mean?

 

[RickB]

Earlier block style 4.2" bore.

 

[LD1]

So rick or soundguy, either of you two have a favorite shop manual for rebuilding an engine.

Dont need a step by step for dummies version. But something that has the important specs, torques, and timing stuff.

And kit preferences? Anyone use these guys? OHFD233D-EO - Overhaul Kit - 233 Engine - Diesel for Ford Tractors

Seem to be best prices by quite a bit. All-State-Ag-Parts is next cheapest at $100 MORE

 

[Soundguy]

I've got some manuals for my late 5000, parts for sure, let me see if I have the ford service, I may only have aftermarket.

 

[LD1]

Is it the IT service manual you have?

Sut trying to figure what one is gonna be best for my needs before I order.

Also, preference on rebuild kits? Gonna take the block, crank, head, and a rod in Thurs to the machine shop. They will measure on the spot and let me know what I need to order. So the sooner I can get a kit to get them the valves and pistons, the sooner they get it done.

 

[RickB]

The I&T manual will probably be adequate. The OEM manual can get a little carried away with special tools, etc, that may not be available on every street corner. As far as kits go, TISCO has always been good quality, but they were sold a couple years back and are now run by a bunch of bean counters that are rapidly destroying the company. I have heard VERY good things about kits made by Reliance and sold by HyCapacity and probably others. Many independent repair shops and OEM dealerships carry HyCapacity products. I sell HyCap but have no direct experience with their Ford engine kits.

High Quality Replacement Parts for Agricultural Equipment - Hy-Capacity

 

[LD1]

Thanks Rick. Will have to give them a call

 

[LD1]

I called abiline machine this morning to inquire as to the brand of the kit.

He asked if there was any brand in particular I was looking for as he could get anything I wanted, but said it dont matter what name comes on them because there is only 1 company/factory that makes the parts. (overseas ofcourse). This place makes all the kits for tisco, reliance advantage, and a few other he rattled off. Said there all identical no matter who I order from, or how much I pay.

they have free shipping thru noon tomorrow when they close. Gonna drop the block and crank off tomorrow, they will take measurements right then and tell me what pistons and bearing sizes to get, and I will have the order placed tomorrow by noon if all goes well.

 

[RickB]

I think I'd treat that information with a healthy dose of skepticism.

The kit is cheap, the shipping is free; I think your mind is made up.

I don't know what they sell and can't comment further than that.

 

[LD1]

I think I'd treat that information with a healthy dose of skepticism.

The kit is cheap, the shipping is free; I think your mind is made up.

I don't know what they sell and can't comment further than that.

they are all cheap kits in the grand scheme of things. Most expensive one I found was ~700 with valves. Abilenes kit to add valves brings the total to ~550. So they are all pretty close, and all made in china.

Looking forward to getting her running again:thumbsup:

 

[RickB]

Country of origin is less important than the QC and design specs involved in the manufacturing process.

Having a phone jockey tell me everything he sells is Chinese and of equal quality would result in a no sale.

You can get better info than that, and you should.

Start here: http://relianceparts.com/wp-content/uploads/REL-132-Ford-New-Holland-Brochure-8.123.pdf

 

[LD1]

Rick, What are your thoughts on Advantage brand kits?