Ford 5000 EXTREMELY hard Start!

[jakmagharibi]

Hi Everyone

Help a feller out? Rehabilitating a 1974 Ford 5000 tractor. I can't recall the correct position for the choke when cranking her up? (admittedly the 'choke' lever in this case is some firm wire, but can't remember whether the choke should be to the 'front' when cranking or to the 'back') The last time she ran was Early November, but the climate temps here rarely fall below 17 degrees CELSIUS. Is it safe just to keep cranking? She has new oil in the case and a new battery. I have to fabricate a brace though as we fitted an alternator to be charging the battery. Any suggestions or ideas as to how to get her started would be MUCH appreciated.. Thanks!!

 

[JC-jetro]

Manual choke cable has to end up to a lever/mechanism that moves the chock plate in closed position to cause less air and more fuel to be sucked in thru the carburetor. Follow the cable and manipulate the choke cable to visually verify where is the full choke position and the opposite choke fully open position is. On gas engines that I have hard time starting occasionally I spray just a bit of "starting fluid" that has higher flammability than normal gas to get it started. Never use Ether as it is dangerous and can damage your rig as well (I know many people have done using Ether and in my personal opinion it is not a good thing to do). Make sure you get spark at the spark plug while you are cranking. Take a spark plug off and short it against the block with the spark plug wire attached , have someone else crank while you observe to see if you get any sparks. Don't make yourself part of the ignition system as you might get an electrical jolt. Use a pliers and glove shorting out the spark plug against the block.

Good Luck and welcome here from Kenya and great continent of Africa

 

[jakmagharibi]

Thanks JC! What would be a substitute for "starter fluid"? Would a mix that includes Kerosene do the trick? Will post photos of the choke so that it can be pointed out what is "off" and what is "on" . I occasionally feel like old earnie below

 

[JC-jetro]

Mr. magharibi

I'm not familiar what is available at auto part stores in Kenya so it is difficult for me to say. You might call a few around if available to see if they have starting fluid, engine quick start in an aerosol can to be sprayed on. kerosene would not do the trick as it is a lot less flammable than normal gas unless it is heated.
is your gas fresh? can you verify if you have fuel in the bowl of the carburetor? is gas filter okay. Can you visually verify it? do you have a drain port at the bottom of the carburetor? if so why don't you open it to see if you have fuel coming out. There is a float and associated valve that open and close fuel to the the carburetor and it might be stuck.

JC,

This what I have used for my hard to start lawn mower, basically gas engine.

https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...a=X&ei=jUABUfmjGcTC2QW9zoGQCg&ved=0CFQQ8wIwAA

 

[jakmagharibi]

Thanks for your advice I will double check these. This Ford 5000 is a 12 Volt and we recently shifted from a gen (which was as old as I am) to an Alternator (shown here) Unfortunately I still need to make a bracket brace to hold the alternator pulley with tension (English is a 9th language but you can kinda see what I mean ) I've also showed the choke (with my steel rod 'Cable' ) so that You can advise what is off and what is on.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Hi Everyone

Help a feller out? Rehabilitating a 1974 Ford 5000 tractor. I can't recall the correct position for the choke when cranking her up? (admittedly the 'choke' lever in this case is some firm wire, but can't remember whether the choke should be to the 'front' when cranking or to the 'back') The last time she ran was Early November, but the climate temps here rarely fall below 17 degrees CELSIUS. Is it safe just to keep cranking? She has new oil in the case and a new battery. I have to fabricate a brace though as we fitted an alternator to be charging the battery. Any suggestions or ideas as to how to get her started would be MUCH appreciated.. Thanks!!

Maybe your hard starting is not caused by a fuel/air ratio issue.

I believe Kenya is at least semi-tropical so unless you are in a mountainous area, low ambient temperatures aren't a problem.

I'd suggest you check out the ignition system and the timing because they are more often than not a bigger problem then carburetion on spark ignition engines. You need FAT, BLUISH-WHITE SPARK, the color of lightning, at the correct time and the cylinder must be charged with the correct fuel/air ratio to start and run a gasser.

 

[JC-jetro]

View attachment 299426View attachment 299427
Thanks for your advice I will double check these. This Ford 5000 is a 12 Volt and we recently shifted from a gen (which was as old as I am) to an Alternator (shown here) Unfortunately I still need to make a bracket brace to hold the alternator pulley with tension (English is a 9th language but you can kinda see what I mean ) I've also showed the choke (with my steel rod 'Cable' ) so that You can advise what is off and what is on.

Can you zoom out a bit on the carburetor. The picture was not clear enough for me. I went to NH website for Ford 5000 and I have connectivity issue with their parts site. I wanted to look at the carburetor they showed on line. I know there might be differences regionally with NH makes and model. Several people on this site are extremely well familiar with older Ford rig. I hope they chime in. I will look at the NH site later to see if I can help some.

JC,

 

[Jerry/MT]

View attachment 299426View attachment 299427
Thanks for your advice I will double check these. This Ford 5000 is a 12 Volt and we recently shifted from a gen (which was as old as I am) to an Alternator (shown here) Unfortunately I still need to make a bracket brace to hold the alternator pulley with tension (English is a 9th language but you can kinda see what I mean ) I've also showed the choke (with my steel rod 'Cable' ) so that You can advise what is off and what is on.

I just looked closely at the picture an that looks like a diesel injector pump not a carburetor! Diesels don't have chokes either and in fact that don't have a throttle plate.

Make sure you are getting fuel from the tank and past the filter to the injector pump and make sure that your air filter is not clogged. Forward on the cutoff lever is usually the run position and pulling it back is the cutoff position.

 

[JC-jetro]

Jerry,

That was my view of it too. Does not look like carb to me. I think that rod ties to governor. OP is sending me some pic for closer inspection. Had a hard time with NH website, part of their server was not working for me this afternoon. I can't believe OP would not know the difference between gas fuel vs diesel fuel. They might call both fuel simply as petrol.

JC

 

[jakmagharibi]

It always trips us up how in your part of the world 'Gas' means something different from over here Yes it's a diesel tractor. As you look at the injector pump can I assume that forward in this case would be with the lever pushed all the way to the right and cutoff would be with the lever pulled all the way to the left? (Bear with me a little Guys.. the transition from ledgers and laptops to spanners and overalls is taking a little longer than I'd expected )

 

[JC-jetro]

It always trips us up how in your part of the world 'Gas' means something different from over here Yes it's a diesel tractor. As you look at the injector pump can I assume that forward in this case would be with the lever pushed all the way to the right and cutoff would be with the lever pulled all the way to the left? (Bear with me a little Guys.. the transition from ledgers and laptops to spanners and overalls is taking a little longer than I'd expected )

jak,

I got all your pics and what you thought of a carburetor is actually a multiport fuel injection pump obviously for diesel. You do not have spark plugs, distributor and spark plug wires. I don't fiddle with any of the injector adjustment. I will be back later on with some suggestion. You don not have electronic ignition system and every thing is done by compression in the cylinders and heat of compression that causes the combustion.

JC,

 

[JC-jetro]

It always trips us up how in your part of the world 'Gas' means something different from over here Yes it's a diesel tractor. As you look at the injector pump can I assume that forward in this case would be with the lever pushed all the way to the right and cutoff would be with the lever pulled all the way to the left? (Bear with me a little Guys.. the transition from ledgers and laptops to spanners and overalls is taking a little longer than I'd expected )

Jack,

Do you have a foot throttle in conjunction with a hand operated lever? if the foot pedal is up (it's natural position by spring action) and and the hand lever is at is lowest position (on some tractors it might be up and on some it might be down) then if you follow the metal rod that attached to the injector will be the lowest throttle position. push on the pedal all the way and it should manipulate the control all the way to the opposite. You might keep throttle at 50% for an engine start. Do you have glow plug? (it is not really an spark plug and it's only a heater to assist initial start. If you have it keep it on for at least 20 second to pre heat the combustion chamber. Give it a try and report. How is the condition of your fuel filter. first thing comes to mind is lack of fuel in to combustion chamber that can be caused by fuel not getting to injector pump and eventually injectors. That can be caused by restriction on the fuel delivery pipe/filter or bad pump or plugged or bad injector. Having air in the delivery system is also bad because injector pump can not pump out air and need liq fuel. Have you run out of fuel lately? Last thing you need to do is to partially crack open the nut at fuel delivery pipe to the injector, have someone else crank the engine and observe if any fuel leak out by pressure.


You need to figure out what's going on with your fuel system for a proper diagnosis.

JC,

 

[Jerry/MT]

It always trips us up how in your part of the world 'Gas' means something different from over here Yes it's a diesel tractor. As you look at the injector pump can I assume that forward in this case would be with the lever pushed all the way to the right and cutoff would be with the lever pulled all the way to the left? (Bear with me a little Guys.. the transition from ledgers and laptops to spanners and overalls is taking a little longer than I'd expected )

If the front of the tractor is to the left, than moving the injector pump lever to the right would be cutoff (if you had a control cable on the cutoff lever, you would pull it out) and to the left would be the "run" position.

 

[jakmagharibi]

JC that's where the plot thickens... the previous 'operator' got rid of both proper cables for the foot operated and hand operated throttle and 'replaced' them with wire... also the dashboard cluster clocks went missing. If the tractor is towed for a length of time she will eventually fire, but having invested in a new battery and a rebuilt alternator, it seems illogical to have to keep doing this each time I need to use her... Mechanics here are lethal when they sense that you're unsure of what's wrong with your tractor. A simple bleeding problem can become an excuse for 'rebuilding' your injector pump and half your engine, with the attendant charges to go with it!. a rough guide as to checking the fuel system would help a lot!

 

[jakmagharibi]

The front of the tractor is to the right. The injector is mounted on the right side with the alternator on the left

 

[JC-jetro]

jak,

I understand, it's like you ask a vendor "how much it is?" and the replies "how much you got!! ". I know haggling is the way of life in your part of world, may be just little less of it here. Please answer the questions I had and share your observations to lead us in bleeding the air out of your fuel system. My question is toward getting he system bled out if that indeed is your problem.

JC,

JC that's where the plot thickens... the previous 'operator' got rid of both proper cables for the foot operated and hand operated throttle and 'replaced' them with wire... also the dashboard cluster clocks went missing. If the tractor is towed for a length of time she will eventually fire, but having invested in a new battery and a rebuilt alternator, it seems illogical to have to keep doing this each time I need to use her... Mechanics here are lethal when they sense that you're unsure of what's wrong with your tractor. A simple bleeding problem can become an excuse for 'rebuilding' your injector pump and half your engine, with the attendant charges to go with it!. a rough guide as to checking the fuel system would help a lot!

 

[Soundguy]

and calling that lever a choke is causeing problems... good grief...

it's a FUEL STOP.

out to stop. IN to run.

there is NO CHOKE on that diesel.. they are a fuel driven air pump with an open intake.

 

[jakmagharibi]

So. Lever facing complete left is stop and complete right is run?

 

[tcartwri]

Jak, see the manual at the following link

Ford-Tractor-Models-2000-3000-4000-and-5000-Operators-Service-Manual

Pages 35-36 specifically. The manual also describes cranking times of 30-45 seconds as being normal for this unit.

 

[JC-jetro]

jak,

Check your email. I sent you some more info. Review TCRTWRI link on thread #19 without download. increase the size of document by clicking on"+" for easy reading. It has good info, I'll look at it as well a bit later on.

JC,