Buying Advice Ford 8N - Is it worth consideration?

[sparc]

To bad your in jersey. I have a cub low boy for sale in Connecticut. Runs great and have a mower deck with it. Just reprinted two years ago, fall 2010. Has new clutch good hydro.

Sometimes I feel bad that I am in Jersey too , other times not.

 

[Soundguy]

OK, in my travels this morning I spied a '63 Ford 4000.

Asking price is $4500 which I think is high.

There's a little wobble in the water pump bearing so that needs replacing and the front tires are shot. It's been cleaned up and repainted. Since it it only shows 580 hours on the meter (if you can believe that) for a 50 YO tractor as thats only averages out to ~11 hr/year. So most likely the meter is wrong or was replaced some time ago.

3500$ might be more in line if it was minty

the hours COULD be correct.. but look at things like clutch pedal and brake pedals to tell. a clutch pedal that is unworn, wasn't used mutch.. thus low hour machine. same with running board wear. I have a 660 that now has just roleld up 600 hrs on it's original proofmeter.. ( or at least a very old vintage one with same paint on it , layer wise, as the rest of the tractor ).. low use.. engine still makes 55 psi oil pressure.. etc..e tc..

 

[Soundguy]

Isn't a 4000 series an updated 800 series machine?

technically an updated 801.. but yeah.. 63-64 4 cyl.. etc. in 65 the 3 cyl jobs came out and the 4000 was a much much beefier machine.. better rear end.. and more trans and pto options.. etc.. etc..

 

[sparc]

63 Ford 4000

3500$ might be more in line if it was minty

the hours COULD be correct.. but look at things like clutch pedal and brake pedals to tell. a clutch pedal that is unworn, wasn't used much.. thus low hour machine. same with running board wear. I have a 660 that now has just rolled up 600 hrs on it's original proofmeter.. ( or at least a very old vintage one with same paint on it , layer wise, as the rest of the tractor ).. low use.. engine still makes 55 psi oil pressure.. etc..e tc..

Thanks for giving me the advantage of your experience with these potential buys Soundguy, I appreciate it.

I did look at the pedals and such for signs of wear that did not fit with the hours shown. The running boards since they have been repainted not so easy to tell but there are no signs of damage or abuse to the sheet metal I could find. No wear on the edges of the running boards and clutch pedal still looks good. Is 55 PSI about normal for these motors? What can I expect to call a good range, 45-60? I still need to pull the dipstick and see what the oil looks like color (clean/new or old and cruddy), viscosity (my worry here is thicker/heavier than it should be might be a sign its been doped up with STP or some such additive to bring the pressure up and/or mask a knock), any signs of water (head leaks?), etc.).

What about brakes. Are these wet brakes or was that just the later 4000 series tractors. How can I tell how much brake life might be left? From what I have been able to find online about the 801 brakes, they appear very similar to drum brakes used on trucks of the same era, so not wet brakes for the 801. And same for the clutch, how much pedal travel is normal before engagement? As far as the clutch is the free play range the same as for an 801 (1-1/2 to 1-3/4")?

Sorry for all the questions. I've worked on plenty of cars from the 60s and 70s, but not tractors of any era. Drove a few many years ago when I worked for a nursery/commercial florist but not much since then. My first were a Super H and a JD model 60.

In the photo above, what are the levers marked 1 and 2 for? Look like hydraulic valve levers to me and I'm guessing that is a valve body there under the seat with the two plugged ports labeled CROP No 2 and LIFT No 2

Another question; Were all the 62-64 4000 tractors 12v negative ground? This one appears to be or was it converted. 601s and801s were all 6V positive ground right?

 

[sparc]

Here's a question that I would think will apply to all old machinery. What to do about unleaded fuels and modern oils and lubes? Can they cause problems for seals and gaskets made in the 40s/50s/60s? What to use in place of those old products?

 

[DABSGT]

Sometimes I feel bad that I am in Jersey too , other times not.

I'll take your governer over ours in Connecticut any day. My younger brother lives in little egg harbor. Nice area

 

[flusher]

There is a 8N in good condition near me for sale. Has been cleaned up, repainted and appears to have no active leaks. Tires are good no signs of dry rot or serious damage with about 50% life remaining.

No one was home to get to fire it up and hear it run or a test drive, so everything above is based on a static display.

My Q is it worth considering for caring for a small lot (~10 acres) to handle mowing and maybe a box blade for light grading of the drive.
About 4 acres needs mowing in addition to the lawn right around the house. This is my in-laws property and they need someone to care for the Yard for them as its too much for them to do at their age. So I was considering the 8N but I think the asking price is a bit high at $3000
I don't have a pic but it does look to be well cared for and fully functional.

Should I go back and have a real look and maybe haggle for a better price or move on to something else?

Buying 60 year old tractors can be a crap shoot (I collect and restore that vintage). Looks can be deceiving. Check out that 8N very carefully. Many of them have been worked hard and are so worn out that you may be facing some major engine and/or powertrain repairs. In itself that's not so bad since the 8N is a simple machine and if you do the repairs yourself, the cost is not outlandish and parts are readily availabe. Test drive it thorougly and be sure the tranny works in all gears without shifting problems and/or funny noises. Check out the hydraulics (3 point hitch) carefully to be sure it works correctly.

$3K is high. Negotiate it down to under $2500--otherwise walk away.

Good luck.

 

[sparc]

Thanks for your comments. The 8N I spoke of in the post you quoted is gone. Don't know what it went for. Most of what you advise will apply to whatever I find such as the 4000 I am considering now.

 

[Soundguy]

Here's a question that I would think will apply to all old machinery. What to do about unleaded fuels and modern oils and lubes? Can they cause problems for seals and gaskets made in the 40s/50s/60s? What to use in place of those old products?

your machine left the factory with hardened valve seats.

TEL was an octane modifier.

modern oil is GREAT!

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Re: 63 Ford 4000

1 & 2 are hyd 'remote' levers, from that valve block under the seat, using the oem 4gpm hydro pump.

39-58 all machines 6v positive ground.

58-64, all NON diesel machines, 6v positive ground.

59-64 all diesel machines 12v negative ground.

65+ all machines 12v negative ground.

somewhere in the mid 70's, at least by the x600 models, alternators repalced generators.

brakes are dry and simple drum. you can look at the clevis adjuster for the 1 brake pedal that is used to match it to the other and see if it has been used much.. kinda the same with clutch.. see if adjustment is left. in the end.. hard to tell exact amount of media on the plates and shoes without splitting them.. so generally, you run em till ya need to work on it.

a good red tiger can make 60 psi cold throttle.. and that tapers back down into the 50's.. a VERY loose and well well worn but 'serviceable' red tiger at hot idle should make 25 psi with regular oil weight for your climate region.

I tend to run 15w40 diesel oil in all my machines here in florida.. though am running my 63 4000 on 10w30 synthetic oil after I did some head work on it ( new push rods and such )

soundguy

Thanks for giving me the advantage of your experience with these potential buys Soundguy, I appreciate it.

I did look at the pedals and such for signs of wear that did not fit with the hours shown. The running boards since they have been repainted not so easy to tell but there are no signs of damage or abuse to the sheet metal I could find. No wear on the edges of the running boards and clutch pedal still looks good. Is 55 PSI about normal for these motors? What can I expect to call a good range, 45-60? I still need to pull the dipstick and see what the oil looks like color (clean/new or old and cruddy), viscosity (my worry here is thicker/heavier than it should be might be a sign its been doped up with STP or some such additive to bring the pressure up and/or mask a knock), any signs of water (head leaks?), etc.).

What about brakes. Are these wet brakes or was that just the later 4000 series tractors. How can I tell how much brake life might be left? From what I have been able to find online about the 801 brakes, they appear very similar to drum brakes used on trucks of the same era, so not wet brakes for the 801. And same for the clutch, how much pedal travel is normal before engagement? As far as the clutch is the free play range the same as for an 801 (1-1/2 to 1-3/4")?

Sorry for all the questions. I've worked on plenty of cars from the 60s and 70s, but not tractors of any era. Drove a few many years ago when I worked for a nursery/commercial florist but not much since then. My first were a Super H and a JD model 60.

In the photo above, what are the levers marked 1 and 2 for? Look like hydraulic valve levers to me and I'm guessing that is a valve body there under the seat with the two plugged ports labeled CROP No 2 and LIFT No 2

Another question; Were all the 62-64 4000 tractors 12v negative ground? This one appears to be or was it converted. 601s and801s were all 6V positive ground right?