Ford Trucks to Get 62 MPG?

[slowzuki]

There have been lots of CVT cars, many of which are geared to lower the rpm on the highways to the most economical operating point of the engine (which isn't always lugging)

You can't lower it too far of the vibrations from the motor will destroy transmission components, and piston side loads will ruin pins and cylinder walls.

The particular saturn you're talking about didn't really get much better milage and the unreliable transmission blew apart all the time. My brother in law has one in his shed, and worked as a Saturn mechanic replacing them for 5 years. I owned a Subaru CVT (2 actually) back in the 90's, it was a nice transmission, doesn't save you that much gas.

Cars aren't just tossed together, they are carefully engineered to balance all the requirements placed on a car.

None of the big Three will build a auto, that can or will lug the engine with tall gearing. It would spell disaster for them. I had hoped for a CVT that had an overdrive, hence improved fuel mileage. This would be strictly for carrying two passengers and a extra payload of aprox. 100 lbs?..Saturn did make a sedan, that was set up like this apparently there was not enough R&d into it to stay.IMHO, fuel injection has really pushed the ratings up, on most engines..

 

[slowzuki]

First how much particulates a diesel makes is based on how much fuel and how you inject it. Most of the egr diesels have cleaner exhaust (particulate wise) than old non egr motors and keep their oil fairly clean. You won't get to 10,000 miles in the near future without super filtration and treatment. Cheaper to change the oil for now.

The dual clutch transmissions are nice, dodge (getrag partnership?) has shelved theirs for now as it would require a major retooling and an expensive hollow shaft. It basically boosted automatic mileage up to a tiny bit better than a standard transmission.

BUT even a std transmission doesn't make a full size SUV get 30 mpg. You need to make it half the size of motor, half the weight, half the aero drag, etc to get 30 mpg. So you need to turn it into a compact suv.

I don't understand your comment about a trial run!??! All the car companies are desperately trying to outdo one another constantly. The engineering in all this is solid, well researched, its not some guys in the backyard trying to make something happen.

My thinking is that without the EGR puting soot back into the engine you could have the oil changes every 10k or longer which should make it less than a gas engine over the same mileage. Diesel fuel is higher like you say and yes diesel engines can be exspensive to repair/replace.

I think it would also do great in the larger SUVs. Mate it up to a 6 or 8 speed dual-cluch trans like I mentioned and put it in a GM Suburban, Yukon, Ford Explorer, etc. I would think that people would love a large SUV than got 25mpg in the city, 30 on the highway, and could tow 10k, even if fuel was more expensive. Even the smaller SUVs that can't tow don't even get that mileage.
I don't think we will every see it but I would sure like to at least see a trial run like you said.

Ed

 

[jonyyuma]

There have been lots of CVT cars, many of which are geared to lower the rpm on the highways to the most economical operating point of the engine (which isn't always lugging)

You can't lower it too far of the vibrations from the motor will destroy transmission components, and piston side loads will ruin pins and cylinder walls.

The particular saturn you're talking about didn't really get much better milage and the unreliable transmission blew apart all the time. My brother in law has one in his shed, and worked as a Saturn mechanic replacing them for 5 years. I owned a Subaru CVT (2 actually) back in the 90's, it was a nice transmission, doesn't save you that much gas.

""Cars aren't just tossed together, they are carefully engineered to balance all the requirements placed on a car.""

Did you mean to say they were "carefully engineered to need replacement parts regularly"? And yes lugging engines will tear up pistons and cylinders. Jy.

 

[PoorMansCat]

From what I understand... Europe has had clean burn diesels for many years. I have a family member that spent time over there and said that there are more diesels that gassers on the road... Audi, Pueget, Fiat,Benz, VW etc.. Cars, not trucks... He said that all of the diesel cars beat the crap out of the gassers in fuel economy and power.
To my knowledge, they don't have Chinas smog problem...
If they can and have been doing it for years, why is it that we arent???

 

[PoorMansCat]

Did you mean to say they were "carefully engineered to need replacement parts regularly"? . Jy.

If its built by one of the big three.. then the answer is YES... engineered to break regularly..

 

[Scooby074]

From what I understand... Europe has had clean burn diesels for many years. I have a family member that spent time over there and said that there are more diesels that gassers on the road... Audi, Pueget, Fiat,Benz, VW etc.. Cars, not trucks... He said that all of the diesel cars beat the crap out of the gassers in fuel economy and power.
To my knowledge, they don't have Chinas smog problem...
If they can and have been doing it for years, why is it that we arent???

Emissions. The europeans measure it differently than here.

Vehicle permitting. The most european countries base your annual permit on your emissions. Have a vehicle with low CO2 emissions and high mileage means a much lower permit price

American import tax (aka chickentax) prevents these companies from importing these vehicles from their international plants. The added cost would be huge. Setting up plants here to avoid these charges just wouldnt be in the cards.

Americans hate diesels.... well not all for sure... but theres enough misconception there to prevent the car companies from taking the risk... other than on a few established marks in the market.. like the VW Jetta, and a few MB models. I guess mazda and BMW have one coming as well.

Fuel quality. Up until reciently the europeans had a higher quality of fuel. Retooling for our limited market wasnt worth it. Now that our fuel has improved, more vehicles could be brought over more easily.

 

[slowzuki]

Not the case, they are very carefully engineered to last for a specified service and no longer. The extra weight and costs shaved out of cars cut into some of that extra design life. They try to design the whole car to last the design life, unfortunately on the consumer side, it means the whole thing kind of falls apart at that point.

That point is a whole lot more miles than back in the "good old days" and they get there with less maintenance. I'm really upset if my vehicles don't make it to 200,000 miles without major repairs. My grandfather was amazed his buick made it to 100,000 miles with lots of work back in the 60's.

Did you mean to say they were "carefully engineered to need replacement parts regularly"? And yes lugging engines will tear up pistons and cylinders. Jy.

 

[aczlan]

One of the issues with NG powered cars is getting the refueling time down to something comparable to gas/diesel powered vehicles. Early pumping systems were pathetically slow; but still faster than recharging electric vehicles.

In Argentina they use many NG vehicles as the fuel is enough cheaper to offset the higher maintenance cost (in an engine not designed for it, the clean/dry gas will cause it to wear faster) and the lower MPG (from the lower BTU/Gal).
IIRC, refueling time was 10-20 mins for a Renault 9 when I was there (2004-2006)

Aaron Z

 

[timswi]

Emissions. The europeans measure it differently than here.

Vehicle permitting. The most european countries base your annual permit on your emissions. Have a vehicle with low CO2 emissions and high mileage means a much lower permit price

American import tax (aka chickentax) prevents these companies from importing these vehicles from their international plants. The added cost would be huge. Setting up plants here to avoid these charges just wouldnt be in the cards.

Americans hate diesels.... well not all for sure... but theres enough misconception there to prevent the car companies from taking the risk... other than on a few established marks in the market.. like the VW Jetta, and a few MB models. I guess mazda and BMW have one coming as well.

Fuel quality. Up until reciently the europeans had a higher quality of fuel. Retooling for our limited market wasnt worth it. Now that our fuel has improved, more vehicles could be brought over more easily.

Most of the problems deal with American saftey standards and emissions standards. Neither of which the beer can cars in Europe can meet. Ergo, the lack of them here..Besides, we wouldn't buy them anyway.

Most people in Europe don't own cars anyway, they buzz around on scooters in 4ft wide alleys. A friend is from Italy and returns quite often. He says it sounds like a thousand weed-wackers running in some places due to the scooters and motorcycles....And they don't care about driving courtecy either. The guy who told me this drives like Mad Max in the US where he owns a 400hp Mustang GT, so he's no driving prude...They can have it to be honest.

The "Smart" car is only safe because it is so light, it bounces off of things. A friend looked at one, and one of the warnings from the dealer was "not intended for interstate driving"..What does that say?

If I wanted to live like they do over there, I'd move there...Ain't never gonna happen.

 

[Egon]

Really sounds like you should get out and about a little more often.