Ford V-6 beats v-8's in towing competition

[WH401]

Where are you seeing information 20+? Not to say it doesn't exist, just seems too good to be true. The few test I've seen and a couple of postings on-line I have seen are 16-18 for either Ford or Chevy. Ford one claim I saw was about a 15% increase. If it's over 20 MPG that would be about 40%. From what I have read both engines still use EGR along with SCR, EGR hurts economy on it's own, it wasn't just the filter.

Here's some stuff to chew on:

Chevy's at the Diesel Place

Ford's at the Diesel Stop

If you want more then that you'll have to look for yourself.

 

[crazyal]

There is no free lunch. Boosting power takes away reliability and longevity. Limiting power puts more strain on other components as well. They manufactures are trying to give the best of both worlds and give the public what most buyers want.

Lets face it, until fuel is $8.00 per gallon like it is most everywhere else in the world we as Americans and Canadians will not change as a whole.

Chris

That $8 is because of taxes. It'll be a long time before we in the US raise our taxes to match EU. We as long as we have elections and people want to get elected they'll not raise taxes, lol.

 

[jagyzf]

Do you realize how contradicting of a statement that is? "It's not for reburn at all, it just puts already burned air into the combustion chamber"? lol. EGR = Exhaust Gas Recirculation, it's most definitely "reburn". Simply put, EGR, is/does nothing more than recirculate cooled exhaust gas back through the engine to be "reburned". When the gas is recirculated it's not like it's cooled to refrigeration temperatures. Coolant typically flows around the EGR itself, (depending on the design of the system or how the particular engines EGR system works), cooling the gas to near coolant temps, usually close to around 190 degrees, +/-. A temp of that nature has no effect what so ever on fuel usage...it's the quality of the air that effects the fuel.

How does something burn without O2?

Here is link on how EGR works and I copied the important part and pasted it below that. Notice how its states they do not burn again. It slows down the combustion process because the exhaust can't burn again due to lack of O2 that was consumed the 1st pass through. No where did I say it was chilled, anything cooler than it once was is cooler. Each of these engines has a EGR cooler on them.

Understanding Exhaust Gas Recirculation Systems

How EGR systems work The EGR valve recirculates exhaust into the intake stream. Exhaust gases have already combusted, so they do not burn again when they are recirculated. These gases displace some of the normal intake charge. This chemically slows and cools the combustion process by several hundred degrees, thus reducing NOx formation.

Here is another link that explains the same thing. They refer to it as dead gas, again this is because it can not burn again and it even covers cooling the gas.

http://books.google.com/books?id=iJ...esnum=4&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

They don't even have to use exhaust, it is just the cheapest. They could use straight nitrogen or any gas that won't act like o2.

 

[jagyzf]

Here's some stuff to chew on:

Chevy's at the Diesel Place

Ford's at the Diesel Stop

If you want more then that you'll have to look for yourself.

I looked at your links, I don't consider the few on those pages who went on long unloaded trip and broke 20 to count. The comment I questioned you on was in reply to someone who said 20+ in the real world. Who drives unloaded 200+ miles daily? The most of the ones listed in your links in daily driving were in the mid to high teen's. When they listed working miles (towing) they were in the low teens.

 

[jagyzf]

Nitrogen might be a poor choice of words in this case since the object is to reduce NOx. Some cars use a longer valve overlap ground into the cam timing to do the same thing. Then they lock the normal operating rpm into a rather low range by using economy axle ratios. Many of the Mopar LA engines used this method until the regulations necessitated the use of an EGR valve.

It is unless you understand that NOx only forms when you have both high temps and extra O2. 78% of the air charge going into the cylinder is already nitrogen. EGR is really to make sure that all of the O2 is consumed before all of the fuel, and slow the speed of the burn which helps reduce temps in the cylinder. To richen a situation that is lean is another way I have read it being put.

Caterpillars ACERT system before they were using EGR also from what I have read was using valve overlap, but now they too must use EGR.

 

[crazyal]

As to elections, look at recent history and think about how effective elections have been.

What? Did I miss something? I thought things were going so well. :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

 

[slowzuki]

EGR doesn't reburn anything on purpose but some soot does get reburned as byproduct. The reduced amount of O2 in exhaust (the is still O2 in the exhaust of a diesel under almost all the time) acts like a dilutant and lowers peak temps (and pressures) produced.

The egr managment map in the computer is complicated, only operating when the highest cylinder pressures occur or when the injection timing is advanced.

Exhaust fluid designs let the engine produce NOx then post treat to remove it.

Particulate filters that collect soot and burn it off are a separate problem for diesels. Soot particles are the big concern for cancer and air quality. Soot happens because diesel have rich, balanced and lean combustion all at the same time within the combustion chamber. The rich combustion zone makes soot, the lean make NOx.

 

[Diamondpilot]

What? Did I miss something? I thought things were going so well. :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Now that is funny.... How is that change going for ya?:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Chris

 

[jagyzf]

Soot happens because diesel have rich, balanced and lean combustion all at the same time within the combustion chamber. The rich combustion zone makes soot, the lean make NOx.

I wonder if this engine Ford has come out with will have similar issues to a diesel, not the soot, but rich, balanced, and lean zones. Or at least more so than a regular gas engine that injects outside the cylinder. Myself have wondered if there would be an advantage to a combination of both. Inject some in the intake stream and the rest in cylinder. I've read some on Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition or HCCI. From what I have read if they can make it work, you can get even better MPG and remove some if not all emissions equipment. I don't know what they do to mix the fuel air charge so it is even through the whole charge.

I have also seen some recent information on plasma used in the cylinder to help a diesel reduce emissions.

 

[WH401]

How does something burn without O2?

Here is link on how EGR works and I copied the important part and pasted it below that. Notice how its states they do not burn again. It slows down the combustion process because the exhaust can't burn again due to lack of O2 that was consumed the 1st pass through. No where did I say it was chilled, anything cooler than it once was is cooler. Each of these engines has a EGR cooler on them.

Understanding Exhaust Gas Recirculation Systems

How EGR systems work The EGR valve recirculates exhaust into the intake stream. Exhaust gases have already combusted, so they do not burn again when they are recirculated. These gases displace some of the normal intake charge. This chemically slows and cools the combustion process by several hundred degrees, thus reducing NOx formation.

Here is another link that explains the same thing. They refer to it as dead gas, again this is because it can not burn again and it even covers cooling the gas.

Modern Diesel Technology: Diesel Engines - Google Books

They don't even have to use exhaust, it is just the cheapest. They could use straight nitrogen or any gas that won't act like o2.

You can argue tomato, I'll argue tomahto, either way it' the same exact thing just written in different ways to please the other person.

I looked at your links, I don't consider the few on those pages who went on long unloaded trip and broke 20 to count. The comment I questioned you on was in reply to someone who said 20+ in the real world. Who drives unloaded 200+ miles daily? The most of the ones listed in your links in daily driving were in the mid to high teen's. When they listed working miles (towing) they were in the low teens.

Forgive me, I didn't know all of those owners were not driving in the "real world". Where did you think they were driving? Mars?. If your honestly looking for an 8k+ lb 4x4 brick to get +20 in stop and go driving, (which I would figure is your "real world",) your dreaming. The mileage figures on either of those pages are the best any emissions diesel has been able to compile yet since the standards set in place in January of 07'. If you want better mileage then that, buy a Prius. I hear they now come with fake engine noise makers to make them sound like they're actually running.:laughing:



So guys, were talkin' about the new Ford Ecoboost V6, right?