Ford's Profit on an Expedition

[Garandman]

We bought a 2016 Tahoe used with low mileage. The original sticker was $67,000!

And we take the Outback when it snows.....

 

[CobyRupert]

.... Go over to a truck Forum and laugh, the big three has run out of improvements so now they are just marketing unnecessary gimmicks and people are eating them up. a new CGI Block? what is wrong with the cast iron block that has already proven it can go 1 million miles. 1000ftlbs Torque, 30k max tow, need I go on....

Don't forget the to drop $60,000 (or whatever) because they have a new tailgate: "Now featuring even more moving parts that can rust out!"

 

[dalola]

... now they are just marketing unnecessary gimmicks and people are eating them up. a new CGI Block?

I hardly think superior strength, stiffness, and resistance to metal fatigue is a "gimmick". To get the same results from std iron you would double the weight. It's partly why a new 2.7EB F150 4x4 can push 20psi of boost and get 26mpg.

 

[crazyal]

One think you have to remember is that the current year model can't sell for less than the previous year. Things like TV's drop in price but cars don't. They will offer rebates as a way around this but MSRP never goes down. It also allows them to discount the vehicles in the fall to sell them off before the next year model comes out.

 

[atsah]

It's partly why a new 2.7EB F150 4x4 can push 20psi of boost and get 26mpg.

Drove in one of those recently, my cousin opted for the 3.5 EB, the 2.7 was a turd.. There is no replacement for displacement..

 

[dalola]

... the 2.7 was a turd..

I would love to hear your logic behind this statement....

 

[atsah]

I would love to hear your logic behind this statement....

There isn't much as far logic goes when stepping on the skinny pedal and comparing two vehicles side by side is there..

 

[atsah]

When you add 50hp and 70ft pounds of torque to a gasser it makes a world of difference.. I guess that's the logic in it..

 

[Garandman]

I hardly think superior strength, stiffness, and resistance to metal fatigue is a "gimmick". To get the same results from std iron you would double the weight. It's partly why a new 2.7EB F150 4x4 can push 20psi of boost and get 26mpg.

Yeah, maybe the 2WD version on the EPA cycle, which has a maximum speed of 48mph, and by trip computer readout, not actual.

Our Tahoe trip computer is 10-19% optimistic. Took a long highway trip, trip computer said 19.8. Actual: 16.7.

Along with boasting about tow capacity, pickup owners seem uniquely willing to inflate mpg numbers. Funny since most of the ones I see are hauling air.

 

[dalola]

There isn't much as far logic goes when stepping on the skinny pedal and comparing two vehicles side by side is there..

You do realize that similar (optioned) trucks with the same gears both run a high 5 second 0-60? Countless magazine road tests have proven that out. The ONLY time you see any acceleration advantage with the 3.5 is when pulling a heavy trailer (7k+).

Yeah, maybe the 2WD version on the EPA cycle, which has a maximum speed of 48mph, and by trip computer readout, not actual.

Our Tahoe trip computer is 10-19% optimistic. Took a long highway trip, trip computer said 19.8. Actual: 16.7.

Along with boasting about tow capacity, pickup owners seem uniquely willing to inflate mpg numbers. Funny since most of the ones I see are hauling air.

Nope, that's me on a trip to the camp. Good mix of roads types. The meter is off .3-.5 every time I check.

And just for fun, here's me again pulling my BX to the camp, ~5K#'s.

Deny all you want, this is a fantastic truck.

 

[atsah]

You do realize that similar (optioned) trucks with the same gears both run a high 5 second 0-60? Countless magazine road tests have proven that out. The ONLY time you see any acceleration advantage with the 3.5 is when pulling a heavy trailer (7k+).

We drove both trucks several times, he bought what HE thought was the more powerful truck. 0-60? who cares about that, the 3.5 has 50 more HP and 70 more FPT. We did not pull a trailer and we noticed a substantial difference hence why he bought 3.5.. The GM/Ford designed 10 speed leaves a lot to be desired as well..

 

[dalola]

The GM/Ford designed 10 speed leaves a lot to be desired as well..

Your tales are very entertaining, so I'll bite on this, too. Please explain how you arrived at this conclusion. :confused2:

 

[atsah]

Your tales are very entertaining, so I'll bite on this, too. Please explain how you arrived at this conclusion. :confused2:

Do you own one of these trucks? The only way I can figure that someone would call me a liar would be if they are defending the power plant in question and can’t stand hearing another opinion.

 

[dalola]

Do you own one of these trucks? The only way I can figure that someone would call me a liar would be if they are defending the power plant in question and can稚 stand hearing another opinion.

Not questioning your integrity at all. Just curious how you arrive at such negative opinions about a subject that is generally very well regarded by consumers, piers, and professionals.

Proclaiming the 2.7L EB "is a turd", and that the GM/Ford 10AT "leaves a lot to be desired" would tend to have one believe you've had a bad experience with both. My experience has been extremely positive, so it's a bit perplexing to me what led you down that negative road. That's all. Trying to understand how you formed those opinions. If I didn't want to hear your opinions, I wouldn't be asking!

So far, we've determined that, because the 3.5EB is more powerful, and your friend wanted the most powerful engine, that alone apparently makes the 2.7EB a "turd" as you say. Interesting conclusion, but sure, if it works for you.

Then you proclaim the GM/Ford 10AT "leaves a lot to be desired", but no explanation as to what it is you desire more of. Perhaps you could sum this up, then we can move on.

I just hate unfinished thoughts.

 

[atsah]

Not questioning your integrity at all. Just curious how you arrive at such negative opinions about a subject that is generally very well regarded by consumers, piers, and professionals.

Proclaiming the 2.7L EB "is a turd", and that the GM/Ford 10AT "leaves a lot to be desired" would tend to have one believe you've had a bad experience with both. My experience has been extremely positive, so it's a bit perplexing to me what led you down that negative road. That's all. Trying to understand how you formed those opinions. If I didn't want to hear your opinions, I wouldn't be asking!

So far, we've determined that, because the 3.5EB is more powerful, and your friend wanted the most powerful engine, that alone apparently makes the 2.7EB a "turd" as you say. Interesting conclusion, but sure, if it works for you.

Then you proclaim the GM/Ford 10AT "leaves a lot to be desired", but no explanation as to what it is you desire more of. Perhaps you could sum this up, then we can move on.

I just hate unfinished thoughts.

People have different experiences with different brands, trucks, tractors or whatever it might be.
I will go into detail of our findings in a day or so. We did way to much research on it really. I’m in the ER at the moment and probably will be all night, gotta be 50 people waiting all day.

I appreciate your latest post and I will certainly post our findings on all the brands and drivetrains we spent time trying..

 

[Garandman]

You do realize that similar (optioned) trucks with the same gears both run a high 5 second 0-60? Countless magazine road tests have proven that out. The ONLY time you see any acceleration advantage with the 3.5 is when pulling a heavy trailer (7k+).

Nope, that's me on a trip to the camp. Good mix of roads types. The meter is off .3-.5 every time I check.

And just for fun, here's me again pulling my BX to the camp, ~5K#'s.

Deny all you want, this is a fantastic truck.

And if you check on Fuelly, the averages are much, much lower.

But like I said, pickup drivers get better reported mileage than, well, anybody. Seems to be part of the profile. A friend of mine maintains he averages 21mpg commuting in a 4WD half ton - higher than the EPA estimate, probably.

 

[ddbackhoe]

You do realize that similar (optioned) trucks with the same gears both run a high 5 second 0-60? Countless magazine road tests have proven that out. The ONLY time you see any acceleration advantage with the 3.5 is when pulling a heavy trailer (7k+).



Nope, that's me on a trip to the camp. Good mix of roads types. The meter is off .3-.5 every time I check.

And just for fun, here's me again pulling my BX to the camp, ~5K#'s.

Deny all you want, this is a fantastic truck.

we are glad you are happy with it. What would happen if you hooked to my 38 foot GN horse trailer? Not everyone here has a need to tow a bx.

 

[dalola]

People have different experiences with different brands, trucks, tractors or whatever it might be.
I will go into detail of our findings in a day or so. We did way to much research on it really. I知 in the ER at the moment and probably will be all night, gotta be 50 people waiting all day.

I appreciate your latest post and I will certainly post our findings on all the brands and drivetrains we spent time trying..

Thanks! Sorry about your ER trip....hope all is well.

And if you check on Fuelly, the averages are much, much lower.

But like I said, pickup drivers get better reported mileage than, well, anybody. Seems to be part of the profile. A friend of mine maintains he averages 21mpg commuting in a 4WD half ton - higher than the EPA estimate, probably.

Fuelly is a composite of every scenario; from those who tow heavy, to tuned trucks w/big tires, and everything in between. Interesting data point for sure, but not relevant to individual situations. I'm only concerned with what I'm able to do with my truck, in my situation. And I'm pleased beyond expectation. I'm sure your friend feels the same way. My overall average is about 22.

we are glad you are happy with it. What would happen if you hooked to my 38 foot GN horse trailer? Not everyone here has a need to tow a bx.

And likewise, not everyone here has a need to tow a 38' GN horse trailer. What is your point?

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

If I aimed it at you I would have quoted you. Are you paranoid? Since we are here. The stock story is a faux.. And Ford didn't get a bailout.. Do you believe everything you read? You said Ford isn't like they use to be, well it's a good thing aren't, the 70's and 80's and some 90's were nothing but junk..

I wish Ford still made a truck like the 80s or 90s F150s. They looked better and was easy to work on.

My fav truck was a 1981 F150 I owned, the bull nose is my fav series. My dad prefers the Aero nose (92-96) F150s. He owns a 92 with 61k miles, 100% rust free in the rust belt (Ohio).

I owned a crew cab 07 GMC Sierra 1500, Had every option. Heated leather seats, remote start, powered split rear window, sunroof, heated power folding mirrors, in dash navigation, AM, FM & XM radio, CD player, Z71 4x4 package, cylinder deactivation, flex fuel, 5.4v8 etc. only things I saw it lacked from being a Denali was the 6.0 engine and the 6 speed transmission. I owned it for a little over 6 months and sold it. Good truck, ran great, got 18mpg average, only complaint is it lacked simplicity.

My 2wd 1981 F150 had a 4.9 strait 6, would easily tow 6k lbs at 70mph (90% of what I was hauling), rubber floors, manual windows/locks, no factory radio or AC. I was much much happier in the 81. Everything was either rebuildable or easily replaceable, parts were super cheap and always in stock. Was constantly getting complements on the truck also. Only reason I sold it was to jump up to a 1 ton F350 dually. Current truck is a 95 with the 460 V8 (7.3-8.4 mpg).



This is an option I value above all the crap they put in trucks now.

 

[dalola]

BFJ, thanks for the trip down memory lane! Some great old trucks. My last full size truck (prior to stepping into the "modern" era of aluminum F150's..) was an '88 F150, reg. cab long bed XL. It was indeed a simple beast, always got the job done. Then went through the gauntlet of mid-sizers...Rangers, S10's, Ridgelines...now back into a full size again, and couldn't be happier. Do miss those vent wings, tho.