forgeing splines using a axle and press

[muddstopper]

That might work if I had the tooling. About the only thing I could use to reach the end of the axle would be my boring bar. That would make the bar stick out so far it would probably flex like a guitar string. One day I might buy a grinder for the lathe.

 

[muddstopper]

This thread could use some pics...

No pic of the fish, I catch and release, :laughing::laughing:
Right now, I have parts scattered around the shop, but once I stick a few parts together, I will take a pic or two. Got to head out to do a little grade work today.

 

[SPYDERLK]

That might work if I had the tooling. About the only thing I could use to reach the end of the axle would be my boring bar. That would make the bar stick out so far it would probably flex like a guitar string. One day I might buy a grinder for the lathe.

Yeah. A 1st time setup is quite an adventure. Depending on what your particular from scratch situation is it could be quite daunting.

I have never had to go as far as what Iv suggested to you, but the setups Iv made to do grinding are "money in the bank" and would be adaptable. The only savior is the low forces required even for hard steel. Actual machining, producing chips, would be impossible "out there". I dont have a tool post grinder. Instead I use an air die grinder or even a Dremel driving a cut off disc. The grinder is used essentially strapped to a tool holder on an Aloris tool post. The slot in the holder provides an adequate horizontal guide notch for the cylindrical grinder body for the forces involved. The ability for precise adjustment and motion lets you get away with a lot in terms of how robust an attachment method is required, and also provides an inherently secure structure on which to beef up the fixture platform where necessary.​

 

[muddstopper]

Got me a 1 3/8 bore hub for the end of the axle. The axle is actually a press fit into the hub. I heated the hub with torch and knocked it on with my BFH. Just for future reference, the axle did actully cut some splines in the hub. The splines are tapered on the end of the axle so its not a clean broach cut, but the hub is splined. I plan on grinding the end of the axle splines square so they will cut more as they pass thru the hub. The splines wont be full depth in the hub, but should be enough with the ground out keyway to hold. I sprayed the end of the shaft with paint to mark where the keyway had to be cut. I tried to center between two splines when I knocked the hub on. If I have a steady hand, I should end up with about half a spline on each side of the keyway slot.

 

[jmc]

I think your plan is going to work well, especially with every spline digging into the hub a little bit.

If you have a mill, in a few minutes you could modify your key stock into a step key- where the key width protruding into the spline's OD is narrower than the key width in the hub. Less grinding on your spline and stronger adjacent spline teeth afterward.

 

[muddstopper]

I have bought step keys before, I dont know if I can find a step from 5/16 down to the size of the splines, about 1/8 give or take a few feet. I havent measured, yet, but I am pretty sure the 5/16 is going to go deeper than the current splines. Had to stop work and plant my sweet corn today. Its trying its best to rain.

 

[muddstopper]

I have bought step keys before, I dont know if I can find a step from 5/16 down to the size of the splines, about 1/8 give or take a few feet. I havent measured, yet, but I am pretty sure the 5/16 is going to go deeper than the current splines. Had to stop work and plant my sweet corn today. Its trying its best to rain.

 

[LouNY]

It may be too late but if you could get the differential side gear that goes to your axle it would fit the splines of the axle and you could machine down the gear teeth to fit your hub.

 

[muddstopper]

Thought of the axle gear, but I dont have it and dont even know what the axle and tube are out of.

 

[muddstopper]

Got the key way cut in the axle. Have to press the hub on the axle, which is a good thing. Then laid out the cyl and drew out a pattern to drill my steering arm. The pic show the cyl on the table laid out over the proposed pin holes. One cyl will push and one will pull.

 

[BukitCase]

How are you gonna plumb the two cylinders so they don't bind up due to seriously different displacement on pull vs. push stroke? Steve

I know it CAN be done, my hoe uses a pair of identical trunnion mount cylinders (in push-pull) for the boom swing; I just haven't needed to open THAT particular can-o-worms yet, so no clue...

Edit - think I figured it out; push on one and pull on other cylinder are PARALLELED, same with the OTHER pair of ports - that way, each cylinder gets the fluid it needs, but it'll NEVER be the SAME flow to both cylinders at the same time -

OK, nevermind - that wasn't so hard once I quit bein' LAZY ...Steve

 

[muddstopper]

OK, now that you have figured it out, tell me.:laughing:
The cyls are laid out the same way they will be mounted, one push and one pull, there shouldnt be any binding. I did change my mounting design. The way I first drawed it uo, both cyl where going to be on the same pin on the steering arm. I was afraid trying to get 180* turning radius I might end up with the boom flipping over the pivot point and trying to go the wrong way. Mounting both cyl on the same end and different sides of center, on a slightly larger circle, the cyl rod will never reach a straight line pull or push. My biggest concern now is whether the 1/2" plate I want to use for the steering arm will hold up.

 

[BukitCase]

As far as the mechanicals, sounds like you got a handle on it - my original (prior to actually THINKING :laughing concern was getting a hydraulic LOCK, because of the fact that a normal cylinder (without a center piston and a THROUGH rod) takes more flow to push than it does to pull, and gives less power on the pull - both of those because of the rod diameter displacing a fair portion of the piston area being acted on by hydraulic pressure -

But then the brain farts kicked in - I finally realized that, with two identical cylinders, SERIES would be the way to plumb them to do what you want -

Lets say, for simple math's sake, that those cylinders have a rod size that would take exactly TWICE as much flow to extend, as they would to retract - and what you need is for BOTH cylinders to move the EXACT same distance, but Cylinder A would be EXTENDING and Cylinder B would be RETRACTING - if you were to plumb both EXTEND ports to a control valve and both RETRACT ports to EACH OTHER, then moving the valve one direction would cause (for example) ONE gallon of fluid to enter the larger extend side of cylinder A, which would then EXPEL only a HALF gallon - but that half gallon would enter the LOWER volume side of cylinder B, which would move THAT cylinder exactly the same distance as cylinder A, because that pressure is on the smaller volume RETRACT side (smaller volume because of the rod displacing half of that sides volume).

Then, when you moved the valve to its OTHER position, the exact same thing would happen but in the opposite direction - so in the end, both cylinders would move the same distance when actuated, but the second one (relative to the pressure input at the time) would have HALF the power. Since they would BOTH be trying to move the same plate, as long as the linkage geometry on both cyls was identical, the two cylinders' POWER would just ADD.

So, you'd end up with 1-1/2 times the power you'd have with just ONE cylinder during its PUSH cycle, but the TWO cylinders would have the SAME 1.5x power EITHER direction.

Now that I've fully confused BOTH of us (and anybody ELSE foolish enough to read this far ) I'll shut up now :ashamed: ...Steve

 

[muddstopper]

:teacher: I am only going to give you a 95 grade because you had to stop and think about it.:laughing::laughing:

 

[BukitCase]

I'll GLADLY take the 95% - if for no other reason than it'll let me quit looking for that "magic proportioning valve" that doesn't exist on my hoe
:thumbsup::thumbsup: ...Steve

 

[muddstopper]

Got a couple more pic. I finally got around to making the steering arm. Pics show the arm on the axle with cyl in approx position as to how they will be mounted once the boom is assembled. I also got some good news on the control valves to make this mess work. I had found a 4spool solenoid control valve. This provided enough spools to work the dump hoist, the boom hoist and the steering cyl with a spare. since I a mounting this on the tounge of the trailer, I really wanted some out riggers to steady things up when winching and lifting. I called the guy with the solenoid valve and turns out he has a second set of 4 spool solenoid valves. I can take one section from one and end up with a 5 spool valve and a 3 spool valve I will find a use for on another project. I think I have another matched pair of cyl I can use for outriggers, if not my newest best buddy has some I can choose from. This does change my tower design for my boom, but I havent built it yet so, time to scrounge some more tube.