Framing nail gun questions

[scootr]

Old Thread.....Old Thread

I need round head collated 21* framing nails. My Milwaukee gun can handle up to 3.5" long and .148 diameter. The stores always carry 3" or 3.25" and usually .131 dia. No building codes where I am building in the near future. This is for framing. I found a place online that has 3.5" .148 but out of stock. For those that build in area with codes is the .131 ok? My kit company just said 3.5."

3.25 has been the industry standard for many many years. 0.131 looks like a (smaller diam) box nail rather than a common nail. The difference will be in the shear value of the fastener. But both could be used for framing.

 

[dieselscout80]

I like my Hitachi it uses plastic collated nails.

I do wish I could find 3.5 ring shank hot dipped galvanized nails for it.

If so find them PLEASE let me know too!

 

[Williy]

I quit using my senco nail gun and went to screws as
they hold and the nails come out very easy. I use 3"
deck screws for framing. With the wood today nails
don't hold very good. I like the Senco 3" staple gun
a lot better than nails they hold better and you get a
lot more staples for the money.
The difference in price/quantity:
2500 2 inch frame nail $57.99 Senaco at Amazon
10000 2 inch gal staple $125.38 Senco at Amazon
$231 more for the same amount of nails
Don't take my word that staples hold better put a
nail in a board and a staple see which one is easy
to remove

willy

 

[Williy]

DieselScout80

Have you tried Amazon???

willy

 

[dieselscout80]

No help on the nails, but I'm curious what the reason for 3 1/2 inch nails is? Do you need to use them for the entire kit? or just in certain areas? I have a box of 3 1/2 inch galvanized nails that I use for sill pressure treated sill plates and framing studs that I hammer in one at a time.

I personally want to use them for fence rails.

 

[caver]

3.25 has been the industry standard for many many years. 0.131 looks like a (smaller diam) box nail rather than a common nail. The difference will be in the shear value of the fastener. But both could be used for framing.

Well that's what I wondered. That gave me an idea to holler at this towns code guy at city hall to see what this small town has for code. Like I said, 100+ miles away where I'm building there are no codes. I did some carpentry back around 80-81 and everything was hand nailed with 16 penny for framing.

 

[caver]

what the reason for 3 1/2 inch nails is? Do you need to use them for the entire kit? or just in certain areas?

I'll ask him next time I talk. They do produce kits with an engineers stamp on them if needed for wherever the buyer is building. I have other nail sizes in some areas. The timber frame part they supply all the screws.

 

[scootr]

When I was a young man before nail guns and battery powered anything. We used to pound a 50# box of 16 sinkers a day, each one of us.
2 licks a nail, set and sink. Set and sink. You held the long framing hammer handle by just 2 or 3 fingers on the end to get the most speed into the swing.

 

[spitter]

I'm with you scootr back in the day we had to nail all micro's together I have a 32 0z. Vaugn Califorina's framer waffle head just for that. Two Wacks send it home. I asked one of my guys to throw a cricket in the other day he went to get the compressor and the air lines buy the time he came back I had it finished.
Talk about holding power try to pull a nail from a real 2"x4" balloon framed house. THey were all hand nailed. People now a days buy a compressor and gun to build a chicken coup instead of learning a skill .
My guys always ask me why I still don't work. I say because I'd have to fire 2 -3 of you a holes.

 

[EddieWalker]

I personally want to use them for fence rails.

In my experience, all wood that is exposed to the weather, will move and shrink over time. Nails will become loose fairly quickly. For decks and fences, I will only use screws. For added holding power, there are some structural screws that are very impressive, but also kind of pricy unless you really need the extra strength in critical areas. https://www.lowes.com/pd/FastenMast...erior-Structural-Wood-Screws-50-Count/3294886

I've also bought some small galvanized washers and used them with normal 3 inch and 4 inch deck screws with great results.

For the wood 3 rail fences that I've built, I use three 4 inch deck screws per post with very good results. For privacy fences, I use the same 4 inch screws for all the framing, and then either the 1 5/8" deck screws, or even better, Hardie 1 5/8" cement board screws. The Hardie Screws are thicker then anything else out there with a larger head for more holding power. They are the best of the best that I've been able to find at the Box Stores!!

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Deck-Plus-10-x-4-in-Ceramic-Deck-Screws-1-lb/1000643257

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Backer-On-9-x-1-5-8-in-Zinc-Plated-Star-Drive-Interior-Cement-Board-Screws-575-Count/1000164359

In every job that I've been hired to fix a fence that was coming apart, they where built with nails.

 

[caver]

Project manager said galvanized 3-1/4" would be fine. I know an earlier phone conversation he said 16 penny but I may have misunderstood him. I also found reference in a contractor forum somewhere online. The skinnier nails reduce splits in wood which makes sense as the newer lumber seems to split easier.

 

[3Ts]

Yes, skinnier nails (box nails) are less likely to split the wood than the thicker (common nails). However, most of the construction joints load the fastener in a shear direction so the larger the cross sectional area the less likely for joint failure. For withdrawal, the screws are far superior, just don't use drywall screws to hold anything other than drywall, their heads are designed so they can be broken off and taped over if need be so they're not nearly as strong as regular construction screws.

 

[Williy]

One thing about staples is they don't split wood
and not very easy to pull out and I do believe they
hold a lot better than nails.

willy

 

[3Ts]

Yes, but I'm not so sure about holding better than nails. I don't know that answer. I've seen roofing shingles put on with staples instead of nails and the staples work their way up thru the shingles. The cross sectional area of a staple is pretty small, but there are a lot more of them to distribute the forces. I've seen roof sheathing put on with staples that withstood a cat 3 hurricane. I guess it has a lot to do with workmanship.

 

[EddieWalker]

The problem with staples on shingles is that it's impossible to adjust the air pressure just right for each shingle. Some staples will be perfect and not break the shingle, others will break the shingle and be worse the useless. Staples are a lot cheaper then nails, but since they fail so often because of too much air pressure, they should never be used. If applied perfectly, staples have something like 3 times the ability to hold a shingle in place over a nail.

 

[Yander]

I dont use my frameing nailer too make a living , and I know Hitachi and Senco make top of the line ones. However I have owned the Rigid (HD) 21 degrees one for years and its never skipped a beat . Its been great !

I have this Rigid one also, bought it off craigslist several years ago for $100 ago. Have built a garage with it and my boss borrowed it to build a bathroom in his garage. Have never had any issues with it, has lots of life in it. Keep it oiled.

Check FB marketplace.. there are scads of them out there and you can by a pro quality nailer for harbor freight prices.

 

[ljjhouser]

I had a Porter Cable for many years. Wore it out. Good Nailer. I now have Rigid - also good. select the right nails. Round head? Clip head? 21 deg. 18 deg etc.

 

[not2old]

One thing about staples is they don't split wood
and not very easy to pull out and I do believe they
hold a lot better than nails.

willy

My experience with staples was in the 1970's applying sheathing. The staples had glue on them and were near impossible to pull out. I remember one incident when I stapled the edge of my boot to the roof sheathing. Gave up trying to pull it out, unlaced my boot and went to the truck to get a pair of wire cutters to free it.

 

[MiserableOldFart]

Yes, skinnier nails (box nails) are less likely to split the wood than the thicker (common nails). However, most of the construction joints load the fastener in a shear direction so the larger the cross sectional area the less likely for joint failure. For withdrawal, the screws are far superior, just don't use drywall screws to hold anything other than drywall, their heads are designed so they can be broken off and taped over if need be so they're not nearly as strong as regular construction screws.

If you are using on anything for a house or other building that is covered by building codes, check with your local bldg. inspector. Last time I checked here was a couple years ago, and screws were verboten, regardless of manufacturers' claims.

 

[3Ts]

No building codes out here and no code inspectors. I had a builder say he meets the building codes, but eventually admitted he didn't know what the code requirements were.