Fuel Additives for Kubotas

[VTForester]

New member here but this thread jumped out at me, 1st post.

A large part of my job is oversight on all aspects of a fuel quality program for a national oil & gas distributor. We maintain fuel quality in several hundred high horsepower standby generators ranging from a couple of hundred KW to 3MW and larger. Units ranging in age from 10-12 years old to brand new 3000hp tier IV units. There isn't much more critical a system than a Tier IV 2MW generator sitting at a hospital so we make a point of keeping up with changes in fuel and engine tech.

Cold weather operation for Diesel engines is an inexact science. Every batch of diesel that comes out of a refinery is slightly different in how it reacts to additives and its natural cold weather operability. Generally speaking the major brands like PowerService and Howse do work but I would use them at double the label dosage to expect real reliability. We use a manufacturer called Primrose Oil but they are an industrial specific additive and not generally available on the shelf as package goods.

All of the old tricks for winterizing diesel like blending in #1, blending in Kero, etc do work. But I would never use them on a Tier rated engine and they will be death to the aftertreatment systems on a Tier 4 rated engine very quickly. No legitimate fuel distributor should be blending #1 or kero in anymore. period.

I saw lubricity mentioned...That was a concern for a short period of time after Sulfur content was dropped to 15ppm. Today though, most Diesel has a small amount of biodiesel blended in (up to 5%). Just about the only good thing about bio from a fuel chemistry standpoint is that it is slick as ****. just 2-5% bio adds back all of the lubricity lost with the sulfur reduction. That doesn't mean I would go looking for B20 for your engines, at that high a concentration the bio brings other problems like affinity for water and a solvent characteristic.

Another thing to note, while "gelling" is the term that has been around for decades it really isn't as big a problem as it used to be. Today's ULSD has such a tendency to collect entrained water that icing usually happens first. If you are shopping for an additive, look for one that addresses icing, dang near all of them will work against gelling.

 

[ovrszd]

Welcome to TBN.

Very informative post!!!!

So here's pics from my jug of Power Service (white jug). Whatcha think?

 

[sandyc]

Use power service all year. No problems!

 

[msb1766]

I use Power Service White bottle in the Winter and the Gray bottle in the summer.

 

[rScotty]

New member here but this thread jumped out at me, 1st post.

A large part of my job is oversight on all aspects of a fuel quality program for a national oil & gas distributor.
"SNIP"
All of the old tricks for winterizing diesel like blending in #1, blending in Kero, etc do work. But I would never use them on a Tier rated engine and they will be death to the aftertreatment systems on a Tier 4 rated engine very quickly. No legitimate fuel distributor should be blending #1 or kero in anymore. period.
"SNIP"
I saw lubricity mentioned...That was a concern for a short period of time after Sulfur content was dropped to 15ppm. Today though, most Diesel has a small amount of biodiesel blended in (up to 5%). ... just 2-5% bio adds back all of the lubricity lost with the sulfur reduction. That doesn't mean I would go looking for B20 for your engines, at that high a concentration the bio brings other problems like affinity for water and a solvent characteristic.

Another thing to note, while "gelling" is the term that has been around for decades it really isn't as big a problem as it used to be. Today's ULSD has such a tendency to collect entrained water that icing usually happens first. If you are shopping for an additive, look for one that addresses icing, dang near all of them will work against gelling.

Thank you VTForester for that really professional summary of diesel fuel additives, water, B-fuel, and gelling.
Things sure have changed from 20 years ago when most distributors simply mixed enough #1 diesel with the more common #2 to make a more expensive winter blend. And there's even a change from ten years ago when ULSD and lubricity were the main concerns.

For the last decade I've been adding Opti-Lube XPD for lubricity and John Deere TY26788 for moisture control and anti-gellng. My machines are pre Tier IV, and I live where -30 F or colder does happen....so I have more options and will sometimes add 20% kerosene to the winter fuels mix for the coldest months.
rScotty

 

[Paystar]

Understand your datapoint and that would have been positive for anyone. However, let me wonder out loud -- First thought is if an injector really is stuck (or clogged) additive in the fuel cannot get to it since there is no flow through it (unless a couple of injectors were intermittent, sometimes firing as expected and sometimes not.) Maybe when you stopped at the Flying J the heat of the engine got to those injectors, more likely the lines to the injectors, and helped get rid of the gel if it was gelled. Possibly it was not the additive. Those unknowns are why I call additive "tiger repellent" having seen no tigers for a long time. It is hard to be sure and every long-term user builds confidence in a product -- the longer time goes on with no problems the greater likelihood it really is the additive.

Could have been coincidence JWR.....but it worked to make me a customer, LOL. And I've never had a fuel related issue.

And when I used Power Service in my ACERT Cat.....one day the service manager at Toromont Cat gave me a bottle of Caterpillar fuel conditioner and I was amazed at how much more throttle response it gave me. So it was good stuff too, but not cheap.
He said it best...."I'm like a drug dealer, I'll give you the first bottle free, and you'll be back, LOL."

 

[JWR]

Yup. Understand that. We need a "like" button on this TBN instead of only being able to reply.

 

[carlhwv]

VTForester. Welcome aboard and thanks for the info.

 

[VTForester]

Welcome to TBN.

Very informative post!!!!

So here's pics from my jug of Power Service (white jug). Whatcha think?

Power Service is a good product. If I didn't have easy and cheap access to industrial grade additives it is what I would buy off the shelf.

I could go on and on about the various issues with Diesel fuel but it boils down to using an appropriate additive (Like PS) to stabilize and winterize and keep it dry. ULSD(15ppm) loves water, much worse than LSD (500ppm) did and it comes out of the refinery with a higher water content too. I would strongly suggest treating year round and absolutely treat if you have a bulk tank or drum sitting at home to fuel your equipment off of. One thing to be aware of though, if you know you have water separated and sitting on the bottom of your fuel tank. DO NOT use any additive until the water has been removed. Any water dispersant additive will cause the fuel to "soak up" the water on the tank bottom and you will make matters worse for yourself.

 

[ovrszd]

Power Service is a good product. If I didn't have easy and cheap access to industrial grade additives it is what I would buy off the shelf.

I could go on and on about the various issues with Diesel fuel but it boils down to using an appropriate additive (Like PS) to stabilize and winterize and keep it dry. ULSD(15ppm) loves water, much worse than LSD (500ppm) did and it comes out of the refinery with a higher water content too. I would strongly suggest treating year round and absolutely treat if you have a bulk tank or drum sitting at home to fuel your equipment off of. One thing to be aware of though, if you know you have water separated and sitting on the bottom of your fuel tank. DO NOT use any additive until the water has been removed. Any water dispersant additive will cause the fuel to "soak up" the water on the tank bottom and you will make matters worse for yourself.

I have read that before. Thanks again for excellent advice.