Gable and side wall overhang....necessary or not?

[hslogger]

I like eaves. eaves are a friend of mine

the big barn was built over a period of years and I stuck small overhang on it. I said next time I will put proper eaves on the next building, and never regretted that. I like'm.

 

[Bing187]

The idea that you can pull out the hot humid air or that a fan will "cool" an attic space is just a myth. It's a sales gimmick just like the latest diet pill or paint with primer. People buy it because it sounds good and they want it to work.

Attic space is supposed to be hot. Heat rises, and when it enters the roof at the soffit, it travels up to the ridge vent or gable vent or whatever you might have. The higher it is the better. Moving hot air faster with an electric fan doesn't change anything, it just uses more electricity.

As for insulation, you don't need a lot to significantly reduce the amount of condensation that's form. The rolls of insulation that are sold for metal roofs work great. an inch of Styrofoam will work. It just needs to be tight up against the metal to create that barrier of the inside air from the outside. If you are planning on heating or running air conditioning, then you will need a lot more. R60 in attics is the goal for houses. What you want to spend and put into it really depends on how much you want to put into heating and cooling it.

Eddie

Totally false, sorry. Attic air is not "supposed to be hot". Attic air gets to be 120 degrees or better in the summer heat. Having a fan that draws cooler air in and forces hot air out serves a purpose. It cools the attic and reduces radiant and convectional heat to the inside of a building. This is elementary.... Do some research on heating and cooling, and building science. It's not a myth, a diet pill or any other fad...And It's the code in places where there are actually people to enforce it.

 

[PhysAssist]

I have 2ft overhang on the sides, 1 ft on the front and back. I noticed that the siding looks better on the sides than it does on the other 2 sides, it doesn't get as much water on it, and less sun. If I built a new barn, it would have at least 2 ft on all sides.

Not only would I go back and double our barn's gable and side wall overhangs fron 12" to at least 24", I would (and will when we get a new roof installed), double the 18" overhangs the original builder put on our log house from 18" to 36".

Not only does the wider overhang help to protect from rain and splashing, it also protects the building and contents from the sun beating down on walls and through windows, especially in the warmer months when it is higher in the sky.

Having seen the amount of water you can get dripping off a metal roof chilled by a thick snow pack sitting on it during a warm spell as happened in several previous winters in our wood shed, which has open soffits, we had foresight enough to put a layer of insulation with a good vapor barrier up against the roof in our barn.

(To be perfectly clear, the insulation is against the roof, the vapor barrier is between the insulation and the open barn.)

They laid it on the purlins and then screwed the metal roof panels down onto it.

Then we had to make them come back to tape the seams so the vapor barrier was well sealed, ...and to repair all the rips they made in it while they were working.

 

[PhysAssist]

I like eaves. eaves are a friend of mine

the big barn was built over a period of years and I stuck small overhang on it. I said next time I will put proper eaves on the next building, and never regretted that. I like'm.

I like your bat house- that is what I see on the third picture, isn't it?

 

[dragoneggs]

I think it's very important, mainly to get the roof's dripline away from the building, poles, and any window/door openings. IT will reduce moisture problems and keep the poles from rotting a lot longer than if they were always swamped. Second, it gives you a place for soffit venting, which combined with a ridge vent is also very good for your building's longevity -- the added ventilation will reduce internal moisture and summer heating and reduce temperature extremes on the roof.

I went with 12" overhangs all around on my barn. I see many barns with no overhangs, and think it's just foolish. I want the building to last a long time and not have moisture problems inside or out. Plus, buildings look a lot better with overhangs in my opinion.

Amen... a no brainer in my mind. At least in my climate.

 

[CurlyDave]

I have 2ft overhang on the sides, 1 ft on the front and back. I noticed that the siding looks better on the sides than it does on the other 2 sides, it doesn't get as much water on it, and less sun. If I built a new barn, it would have at least 2 ft on all sides.

I completely agree with you. Not only do I like the look of overhangs, but they do keep water and sun off the siding. To me, this shades the barn and keeps it cooler in the summer.

On a house, I like a 3' overhang all around, it keeps windows cleaner, plus the same thing with both sun and winter protection.

 

[dragoneggs]

I completely agree with you. Not only do I like the look of overhangs, but they do keep water and sun off the siding. To me, this shades the barn and keeps it cooler in the summer.

On a house, I like a 3' overhang all around, it keeps windows cleaner, plus the same thing with both sun and winter protection.

Yes big overhangs are functional but in design, be careful they aren't too big as you might really reduce the amount of daylight coming indoors to your home. I had this issue with a few rooms in a home I designed and built.

 

[hslogger]

yep that is a bat house on the right side, in the photo. On the left side is an owl box. We have had moderate success with this owl box so far,it took them a while to find it, two years to be exact. We have had a nesting pair the last two years.

The bat box really shouldn't have been placed where it is. Sometimes the barn owls will intimidate and or eat the bats. Best to have the two in much different places.

 

[PhysAssist]

yep that is a bat house on the right side, in the photo. On the left side is an owl box. We have had moderate success with this owl box so far,it took them a while to find it, two years to be exact. We have had a nesting pair the last two years.

The bat box really shouldn't have been placed where it is. Sometimes the barn owls will intimidate and or eat the bats. Best to have the two in much different places.

Thanks!

We have a wood duck pair that returns to our pond to mate each spring and then essentially fades away into the woods- they make great neighbors. A couple of times they have returned to let their little ones go for a swim, something we are always happy to see. I have thought of putting up a nesting box for them, but there doesn't seem to be any need.

What kind of owls nest in your nest box?

We know we have had a little screech owl living nearby, because as our house wss being built, the former owners got some pictures of him roosting in the rafters under the ground floor before the floor decking had been laid down. We also saw a really big white owl flying one winter night- it wss pure chance that we turned on the flodlight as he swooped down. Is there a best way to get them to find the box?

To return to thread-related topics, the benefit of wider eaves is made obvious by your pictures, the siding protected by the overhang of your eaves has very little weathering, and no water staining or damage, in contrast, below that where the wood no longer in the rain (and sun) shadow created by the eaves, the weathering and water damage is easily seen.

This why we are trying to extend at least the side wall eaves on our house another 16" to get to a 36 total overhang (not counting the gutter) when we get it re-roofed later this year- if we can find any way at all to afford it.

With a log house, a 3-foot overhang should have been there in the first place, but the guy who built this house had never built a log home before, and he also isn't much of a reader, so when he built it, he did it the way he built the other houses he had built. He was building it for himself and then ran out of money, and decided to sell it. That sort of left us holding the bag, so as things like the roof and components breakdown and/or wear out, we're trying ro remediate the shortcomings.

As a result of his cheaping out, on so many things, this house gives me periodic reminders about how much easier and cheaper it ends up being in the long run to spend the money, time, and effort to do things the right, or at least the best way possible in the first place.

The evolution of his realization that he was spending too much is often visible in the quality of work evidenced.... as in the early stages- foundation, log wall construction, framing, and roofing, he overbuilt everything. But many things in the finish details were either left only partly finished or finished in a half-a$$ed manner.

Oh well, C'est la vie....
Thomas

 

[JimRB]

In some areas of the country you cannot legally install powered electric attic fans. Power Attic Ventilators Banned by New Georgia Energy Code

Some folks just spray foam against the roof deck to keep the hot air out.

The barn I built using 6x6 poles has 2 foot overhangs. It does sometimes help keep the weather from blowing in the doors. I need to do gutters now that I installed proper soffit and fascia this summer 18 years after building the barn. I did have fascia but I covered it with low maintenance vinyl.

 

[rswyan]

Totally false, sorry. Attic air is not "supposed to be hot". Attic air gets to be 120 degrees or better in the summer heat. Having a fan that draws cooler air in and forces hot air out serves a purpose. It cools the attic and reduces radiant and convectional heat to the inside of a building. This is elementary.... Do some research on heating and cooling, and building science. It's not a myth, a diet pill or any other fad...And It's the code in places where there are actually people to enforce it.

Agreed ... I bought an temp/humdity controlled gable power vent quite a few years ago and never got around to installing it until a year or so ago.

We had a problem on really hot, sunny days where the AC could not keep up and the temp inside the house (2200 sq ft ranch) would start creeping up after noon ... by late afternoon (4 pm) the temp inside the house would have gone from 72 up to 77 or 78 degrees ... and it would take until sometime between 8 or 10 PM or later for the AC to catch up and cool the house back down.

 

[rswyan]

Not only would I go back and double our barn's gable and side wall overhangs fron 12" to at least 24"...

Same here ...

I cheaped out and went with 12" overhangs (on a 42 x 72 polebarn) because it was going to cost another couple grand to go with 24" overhangs and I was already over-budget ... it was a bad move - both aesthetically and functionally.

As a way of compensating for that bad decision I want to pour a 3' or 4' slab all the way around the perimeter of the barn ... which, if course, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

[PhysAssist]

Same here ...

I cheaped out and went with 12" overhangs (on a 42 x 72 polebarn) because it was going to cost another couple grand to go with 24" overhangs and I was already over-budget ... it was a bad move - both aesthetically and functionally.

As a way of compensating for that bad decision I want to pour a 3' or 4' slab all the way around the perimeter of the barn ... which, if course, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

?..and as a question of par, will that cost more, or less than the "couple of grand" that you saved back then?

 

[rswyan]

?..and as a question of par, will that cost more, or less than the "couple of grand" that you saved back then?

Well ... I haven't priced 'crete (or rebar) lately ... but let's say $120 yard for the 'crete ... mebbe ?

The building is 72' x 42' ... so to put a 4" thick, 4' wide apron on just the sides and rear:

... is 164' lineal feet x 4' wide x 4" thick ... or:

1968" (length) x 48" (wide) x 4" thick = 377,856 cu. in.

377,856 / 46656 (no. cu. in. in a cu. yd.) = 8.09 cu. yds.

So we're about at $1000 just for the 'crete ... before the cost of steel, rebar chairs, forms, or labor ...

I'd guess I'm probably still ahead of the game cost-wise ... and the slab would have a lot of functional use as outside storage ... but the overhang still comes in first in terms of aesthetics ...

Of course, in terms of priorities, having a poured floor inside the building comes in a little higher ...

 

[SPIKER]

I agree with others the bigger overhang SHOULD be done when built, my SOUTH side long wall and both gable ends only have 12" overhangs and not enough. the bottom 2 feet of the siding is always dirty from rain (no gutters) splashing upon it. I had plans of putting in a 10' glass greenhouse along that wall and so far no $ to do it. The existing 12" has one benefit, less wasps under it & more summer heat inside :/

mark

 

[PhysAssist]

Well ... I haven't priced 'crete (or rebar) lately ... but let's say $120 yard for the 'crete ... mebbe ?

The building is 72' x 42' ... so to put a 4" thick, 4' wide apron on just the sides and rear:

... is 164' lineal feet x 4' wide x 4" thick ... or:

1968" (length) x 48" (wide) x 4" thick = 377,856 cu. in.

377,856 / 46656 (no. cu. in. in a cu. yd.) = 8.09 cu. yds.

So we're about at $1000 just for the 'crete ... before the cost of steel, rebar chairs, forms, or labor ...

I'd guess I'm probably still ahead of the game cost-wise ... and the slab would have a lot of functional use as outside storage ... but the overhang still comes in first in terms of aesthetics ...

Of course, in terms of priorities, having a poured floor inside the building comes in a little higher ...

That's why it (concrete slab) was the very first thing we put in ours

Although I have to admit, by your figures, the apron estimate wasn't as high as I would've guessed.

Hopefully, we'll get our electricity in there next (soon) and then I'll be good to go....

For now, we have one heavy duty and another lighter duty extension cords run from a dedicated 20 amp outlet on its own circuit., etc.

We use the light duty one for lighting, and the heavy one for any power tools, air comprressor, etc.

Back on topic, when we get our house roof done (ASAP because the old shingled roof is toast) , we need to have all the eaves boards (and maybe some rsfter ends) replaced anyway due to water damage from the worn out roof and gutters, and because of all the carpenter bee damage, so hopefully the cost of adding another 18" of rafter, deck and roof won't be too exorbitant to manage.

Fingers crossed, and knock wood... =-O

 

[PhysAssist]

I agree with others the bigger overhang SHOULD be done when built, my SOUTH side long wall and both gable ends only have 12" overhangs and not enough. the bottom 2 feet of the siding is always dirty from rain (no gutters) splashing upon it. I had plans of putting in a 10' glass greenhouse along that wall and so far no $ to do it. The existing 12" has one benefit, less wasps under it & more summer heat inside :/

mark

I know what you mean about the back splash with short overhangs and no gutters, I'm trying to decide between adding gutters or just those rain guards that diffuse and spread the run-off farther from the building,

Luckily (the only time it has been a positive) when we built, we had to add upwards of 4' of packed fill to get the body of the barm up to the level of the front, so it's all well above grade and the water doesn't seem to at risk to cause any run-off problems for the posts or floor.

Has anyone ever used the rain diffusers?

Like these:
Rainhandler Gutters

Thanks,
Thomas

 

[Wnc3]

I know what you mean about the back splash with short overhangs and no gutters, I'm trying to decide between adding gutters or just those rain guards that diffuse and spread the run-off farther from the building,

Luckily (the only time it has been a positive) when we built, we had to add upwards of 4' of packed fill to get the body of the barm up to the level of the front, so it's all well above grade and the water doesn't seem to at risk to cause any run-off problems for the posts or floor.

Has anyone ever used the rain diffusers?

Like these:
Rainhandler Gutters

Thanks,
Thomas

I tried the rain guards and it only widens the water impact on the ground depending on height. Mine was 10 feet and made a line 6" wide down the drip line.
I say gutters or nothing at all.

 

[rswyan]

I agree with others the bigger overhang SHOULD be done when built, my SOUTH side long wall and both gable ends only have 12" overhangs and not enough. the bottom 2 feet of the siding is always dirty from rain (no gutters) splashing upon it. I had plans of putting in a 10' glass greenhouse along that wall and so far no $ to do it. The existing 12" has one benefit, less wasps under it & more summer heat inside :/

mark

I have gutters ... the problem with them - due to the location of the polebarn - is keeping the leaves out of them so that they actually work.

Last year or the year before I hired my nephew to install some cheap leaf guards from Home Depot ... I didn't check his work afterwards, but it appears they were installed incorrectly as about 50% to 75% ended up blowing out of the gutters.

This year I'll do it myself, save the money, and actually get it done right ...

 

[rswyan]

That's why it (concrete slab) was the very first thing we put in ours

Makes sense to me ...

Unfortunately, to floor just one (of the three) bays (each 24' x 42') I'm looking at about double the amount of 'crete and rebar to do the entire outside apron ...

Looking back at some old notes, I had a rough cost of around $400 for the rebar for a single bay ... but there was no cost per foot/pound ... so I'm not sure how accurate that $400 number is.

Although I have to admit, by your figures, the apron estimate wasn't as high as I would've guessed.

Yeah ... I was kinda surprised myself.

Hopefully, we'll get our electricity in there next (soon) and then I'll be good to go....

For now, we have one heavy duty and another lighter duty extension cords run from a dedicated 20 amp outlet on its own circuit., etc. We use the light duty one for lighting, and the heavy one for any power tools, air comprressor, etc.

I've got a piece of 10 or 12 gauge outdoor burial running to ours at the moment, just laying on the ground ... it's hooked up to the panel in the barn ... ... mainly for lights.

I've got the 2/0 AL direct burial cable for the service, just need to get one of those round tuit things ...

Back on topic, when we get our house roof done (ASAP because the old shingled roof is toast) , we need to have all the eaves boards (and maybe some rsfter ends) replaced anyway due to water damage from the worn out roof and gutters, and because of all the carpenter bee damage, so hopefully the cost of adding another 18" of rafter, deck and roof won't be too exorbitant to manage.

Fingers crossed, and knock wood... =-O

If you're going to R & R the existing roof, I wouldn't think it would be too bad.

I also have a smaller concrete block shed (28 x 32) on the property that has a 12" overhang on the sides only ... I want to put a 24" overhang on it when I replace the roof.

Probably will pull the sheathing and then nail up 2 x 4 purlins on edge to extend it on the gable ends.

Would sure make it look a lot better.