Gas from water? - A delusion, or maybe not.

Eagleview · Jun 19, 2008

Ford Australia's new FG Falcon is LPG dedicated , called "E-GAS" .

Fuel from water is possible , we are just not told about it . NASA is very excited about finding water in glacier form below the moons surface because it is a fuel source for refueling rockets for further destinations .

alchemysa · Jun 19, 2008

Iron Horse said:
Ford Australia's new FG Falcon is LPG dedicated , called "E-GAS" .

Fuel from water is possible , we are just not told about it . NASA is very excited about finding water in glacier form below the moons surface because it is a fuel source for refueling rockets for further destinations .

Yeah I wondered if Ford were still doing something with LPG. My dad had a mid nineties Falcon with factory fitted LPG. Towed his van all around australia for 30c a litre while everyone else was paying twice that for petrol. But I see the petrol companies are closing that little loophole in their profit plan, and cranking up the price of LPG. And I just read that GM (Holden) have dual fuel conversions too so they are at least offering it but they dont make much of song about it.

WTA · Jun 20, 2008

I'll bet these new happy homeowner wind turbines that I have been dismissing as not near enough to run my farm without at least 50 of them would be enough power to make hydrogen.

That may be worth looking into. Then nothing off the grid would be going into it.

I'm looking for someone to sell me one of the new turbines directly right now. The local dealers will only sell them if they install it and that turns a 4000 dollar machine into nearly 15,000. Too rich for me.

Chuck52 · Jun 20, 2008

In these applications, it's probably better to see the H2 and O2 gases you can get by hydrolysis of water more as simply a storage form for the electrical energy used to make them. Nothing wrong with that concept, because what's needed to replace or supplement gasoline use in internal combustion engines is something portable, be it batteries or some other storage form for the electrical energy. Use of the gases in a fuel cell would improve the efficiency of re-capture of the energy as compared to simply burning them.

Chuck

ericstac · Jun 20, 2008

Here is a story that ran a few weeks back...

Texas scientists testing car that runs on water | LOCAL BUSINESS | KHOU.com | News for Houston, Texas

"Gerhlein, a professional mechanic for more than 30 years, was so intrigued by what he read about hydrogen generators that he put one on his wife's Lexus.

Without the hydrogen generator, Gerhlein said the Lexus, running on super unleaded, got about 14 miles per gallon. With the hydrogen generator the vehicle gets about 19 miles per gallon. By tweaking the computer to accept the extra fuel, Gerhlein says the truck now gets 26 miles per gallon.

"We know it works on my wife's truck for about a 40 percent increase in gas mileage without the computerization," Gerhlein said. "The work that I do is concentrating on hydrogen used in more traditional engines, like we drive every day," Roberst said. "

turnkey4099 · Jun 20, 2008

Two points:

1. If it worked, the auto companies would already have it installed. They bust there butts to achieve a minor improvement.

2. It runs right into one of the laws of thermo (#3 IINM). You cannot feed energy (in this case electricity from the generator) into a device and recover more energy out of it...in fact you can't even break even. It will always result in less energy than when you started. Thus the energy used by the engine driving he generator cannot be recovered by burning (that is what happens to the hydrogen) it the engine to produce a bit more power. Energy in = less energy out.

The day one of those 'on-board' devices works, it will revolutionize physics as it will be a perpetual motion machine. Most of the wild claims of greatly increasted mileage are wishful thinking with the rest of them being pee poor measurement techniques.

Harry K

Eagleview · Jun 20, 2008

Who knows how much power can be derrived from Hydrogen and at how little input to obtain it ? Ive seen the results of a Hydrogen bomb with as much of the fuel that would fill a milk carton . Now if we could work out how to convert Hydrogen into Hellium like the sun does and harness it ..........

SPYDERLK · Jun 20, 2008

turnkey4099 said:
Two points:

1. If it worked, the auto companies would already have it installed. They bust there butts to achieve a minor improvement.

2. It runs right into one of the laws of thermo (#3 IINM). You cannot feed energy (in this case electricity from the generator) into a device and recover more energy out of it...in fact you can't even break even. It will always result in less energy than when you started. Thus the energy used by the engine driving he generator cannot be recovered by burning (that is what happens to the hydrogen) it the engine to produce a bit more power. Energy in = less energy out.

The day one of those 'on-board' devices works, it will revolutionize physics as it will be a perpetual motion machine. Most of the wild claims of greatly increasted mileage are wishful thinking with the rest of them being pee poor measurement techniques.

Harry K

In an engine about 75% of the fuel energy is wasted in the exhaust and cooling system. If H2 + O introduction were somehow to cause a situation yielding less waste, by an amount exceeding the energy to split water, there would be no thermodynamic conflict to higher fuel mileage.
larry

alchemysa · Jun 20, 2008

turnkey4099 said:
Two points:

1. If it worked, the auto companies would already have it installed. They bust there butts to achieve a minor improvement.

2. It runs right into one of the laws of thermo (#3 IINM). You cannot feed energy (in this case electricity from the generator) into a device and recover more energy out of it...in fact you can't even break even. It will always result in less energy than when you started. Thus the energy used by the engine driving he generator cannot be recovered by burning (that is what happens to the hydrogen) it the engine to produce a bit more power. Energy in = less energy out.

The day one of those 'on-board' devices works, it will revolutionize physics as it will be a perpetual motion machine. Most of the wild claims of greatly increasted mileage are wishful thinking with the rest of them being pee poor measurement techniques.

Harry K

This has been discussed in previous posts. Please read them.

1. For various reasons (some valid, some not) auto companies do not always support the most cost effective technology. LPG being an example.

2. And no one is claiming its a perpetual motion machine. It only makes 2 litres of hydroxy gas per minute to use as a kind of additive to the air. It is still burning up and using petrol. Its not replacing the petrol.

(edit. LPG price here today 68c a litre. Petrol $1.67 per litre. LPG gives about 15% less milage. Requires simple and relatively cheap modifications to instal. About 30 years ago a guy in my hockey team coverted his landcruiser to LPG. We thought he was a bit of a nut. Who's laughing now.)

tallyho8 · Jun 20, 2008

I believe the current price of LPG is based on supply and demand. If suddenly there were thousands more cars on the road using LPG then the demand would go up and so would the price. Road taxes on LPG would be increased to equal those on gasoline and suddenly LPG would be more than gasoline.

If you use LPG, SHHHHH, don't tell anyone or you will drive the price up.