Gas from water? - A delusion, or maybe not.

[Eagleview]

I believe the current price of LPG is based on supply and demand. If suddenly there were thousands more cars on the road using LPG then the demand would go up and so would the price. Road taxes on LPG would be increased to equal those on gasoline and suddenly LPG would be more than gasoline.

If you use LPG, SHHHHH, don't tell anyone or you will drive the price up.

Thats exactly what our government has done . They baited the public with the $2000 rebate to install LPG systems which is a drop in the bucket compared to the tax's they will recoup . "Beware the double edge sword" (did someone say that or is that mine?)

 

[alchemysa]

Thats exactly what our government has done . They baited the public with the $2000 rebate to install LPG systems which is a drop in the bucket compared to the tax's they will recoup . "Beware the double edge sword" (did someone say that or is that mine?)

Why bait them to change from one tax raiser to another?
But I agree to some extent. How do you explain todays diesel prices.

 

[Eagleview]

They have got every fuel type covered now , no one escapes . And if we do ever start running our cars on water they will create a road tax or simillar to offset any taxes lost from Dino/Bio fuels and cover that as well . As for Diesel prices , they are not justifiable at all but what can we SHMUCKS do ? If they decided to charge a tax on the air we breath , work out how many breaths we take per hour and what amount per breath and then impose a charge depending on where you live , clean air or poluted air . What would we do ? Would we unite and take to the streets ? Or would we complain on a forum and then send the cheque ? Ive got this picture in my mind , it would make a great cartoon . Its of a long line of us SHMUCKS extending over the horizon . We all have wheelbarrows full of our hard earned dollars . The guy at the front is tipping his barrow into the doorway of Parliment House . But it's just a facade , behind it is the tax man , bloated like like an enormous cattle tick with his hungry mouth open swallowing up all the loot .( Can anyone draw i'd love that hanging on my wall .)

 

[Eagleview]

Just found some interesting reading on Hydrogen . If its compressed enough it turns into Metalic Hydrogen and becomes a Super conductor at low temperature . Metallic hydrogen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And this is the form they use to run the Shuttle engines . Hydrogen peroxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Theres more to Hydrogen than just swimming in it , maybe i can run my F250 on it ...

 

[Egon]

Move to Iceland. They even have a filling station for hydrogen!

Or get the New Zealanders to really get serious about all that geothermal that lies under them.

 

[turnkey4099]

This has been discussed in previous posts. Please read them.

1. For various reasons (some valid, some not) auto companies do not always support the most cost effective technology. LPG being an example.

2. And no one is claiming its a perpetual motion machine. It only makes 2 litres of hydroxy gas per minute to use as a kind of additive to the air. It is still burning up and using petrol. Its not replacing the petrol.

(edit. LPG price here today 68c a litre. Petrol $1.67 per litre. LPG gives about 15% less milage. Requires simple and relatively cheap modifications to instal. About 30 years ago a guy in my hockey team coverted his landcruiser to LPG. We thought he was a bit of a nut. Who's laughing now.)

1. I have read the entire thread.

2. Noone is claiming it as perpetual motion true. Too bad that that is _exaclty_ what it is and it has been pointed out by others also. For it to do what is claimed it _has_ to get more energy out of the hydrogen than the energy it took to produce that hydrogen. The electricity coming from the generator is not free, the engine has to work harder to drive the generator.

Harry K

 

[alchemysa]

1. I have read the entire thread.

2. Noone is claiming it as perpetual motion true. Too bad that that is _exaclty_ what it is and it has been pointed out by others also. For it to do what is claimed it _has_ to get more energy out of the hydrogen than the energy it took to produce that hydrogen. The electricity coming from the generator is not free, the engine has to work harder to drive the generator.

Harry K

If you are correct then these hydrogen kits must REDUCE the mpg not increase it. Are you saying the people who are doing this and claiming increased mpg are so stupid they cant even tell that their mpg has actually GONE DOWN?

 

[Reg]

I think the "Claim" is that it takes less energy to SEPARATE the H and O than the energy that they provide.
If true there would be a net gain with no violation of the laws of nature as we currently understand them.
("If true" - NOTE: I have NOT derived any energy equations for this, but I would like to see them.)

I remain skeptical about the rate of production that can be achieved at acceptable costs, both in money and equipment size.

 

[Egon]

Ahh, rather than build the device just get a bottle of O2 and H2 and pipe them into the fuel manifold. Put the vehicle on a dyno and measure the fuel consumption and power expended accuretly. Make adjustments etc and do a proper experiment. Should not be difficult or take very long.

Use an older vehicle with none of the sensors on it.

 

[alchemysa]

1. I have read the entire thread.

2. Noone is claiming it as perpetual motion true. Too bad that that is _exaclty_ what it is and it has been pointed out by others also. For it to do what is claimed it _has_ to get more energy out of the hydrogen than the energy it took to produce that hydrogen. The electricity coming from the generator is not free, the engine has to work harder to drive the generator.

Harry K

I dont think you understand what is being claimed. You are not getting more energy out of the hydrogen. You are getting more (usable) energy out of the petrol!

Look at it this way. Wikipedia states that a turbo added to a diesel engine improves power and fuel economy. The turbo obviously requires power to spin it but it improves the efficiency MORE than it costs to run it. I see a parallel here with the hydrogen gas system. The hydrogen gas system uses power to run it, but it improves efficiency beyond what it costs to run.

Don't forget that both examples are still burning up a fossil fuels. When they run out of diesel or petrol THEY WILL CONK OUT. They are not perpetual motion machines. Both examples must be viewed in their totality. You can't just look at the hydrogen gas unit in isolation and ignore the fact that its just part of a petrol powered system.

I admit I still don't know if these gas gadgets work. They may not, but I just can't see how this perpetual motion argument can possibly be used if we are talking about a system that burns petrol. When the petrol runs out, the engine stops, the hydo gas system alone will not keep it going. That sounds nothing like perpetual motion to me.