Gas in a Diesel engine

[Red Horse]

View attachment 355846Thanks for all the input! I ended up draining the fuel tank, I don't think there was too much gas mixed in as it looked like diesel but smelled like gas. I put 15 gals of fresh diesel in with additive and some 2 stroke oil mixed in and it ran fine. I ran it today for about an hour feeding bales and so far I like the old girl, nothing fancy but it gets the job done ive also attached some pics if anyone is interested.View attachment 355844View attachment 355845

Nice! looks like decent rubber too. In my "youth" working my way through school among the machines I ran was a Trojan 102. A bit smaller than yours and a gas job/Allison. Old Straight frame machines were nice and simple but not exactly "nimble". Worst thig about it was moving it from job to job on the road. Hit a certain speed and that rear wheel steer would start to wobble until you brought the speed down.

 

[JoeL4330]

You took the best advice and drained the tank ...however, I would not necessarily worry about damage from some gasoline in the diesel. I probably can't lay my hands on the manual at the moment, but my 1968 MB diesel had instructions for "winterizing" diesel fuel in extremely cold weather: cut the (no.2) fuel with "engine kerosene" ( no. 1 diesel) OR add some gasoline ...not more than some percentage (<20% as I recall) and, of course it specified low-test (least anti-knock properties inasmuch as diesels work by "knocking" ...called compression ignition).

Quite possibly, the previous user had thinned out the summer diesel with some gasoline to winterize it and that was what you smelled. This is even more likely the case insofar as it actually ran with the fuel mixture in the tank, and would not have run (I believe) with straight gasoline, whose anti-knock properties would have prevented compression ignition.

Notwithstanding, draining the tank was the prudent course ... You didn't say what you did with the fuel you drained, but following my discussion I would, on no account, put it into a gasser ...A gasoline spark ignition engine will run a bit on diesel (don't ask), but it will knock destructively.

 

[buickanddeere]

Buickanddeere- this machine has no engine heater whatsoever, but honestly I don't think it would help much this Detroit was rebuilt 50hrs ago and even when I started it today (45 degrees) it still took its fair share of ether.[/QUOTE]

At first I thought you were kidding but pondered your reply for a while. Your machine is a prime example of where and when a block heater IS REQUIRED.
Depends on who rebuilt it. I've seen blotched jobs where they used "S" series pistons/sleeves and ground the valves and seats. Well of course it's going to start lousy in cool weather.
More starter and battery will help too. How machines end up in northern cold areas without the cold weather start options is beyond me. Often a 24V start system or at least a larger battery and starter.
Next time it needs a starter and if it's 12V . Use a Delco 44MT.

 

[diesel lover]

Buickanddeere- this machine has no engine heater whatsoever, but honestly I don't think it would help much this Detroit was rebuilt 50hrs ago and even when I started it today (45 degrees) it still took its fair share of ether.

At first I thought you were kidding but pondered your reply for a while. Your machine is a prime example of where and when a block heater IS REQUIRED.
Depends on who rebuilt it. I've seen blotched jobs where they used "S" series pistons/sleeves and ground the valves and seats. Well of course it's going to start lousy in cool weather.
More starter and battery will help too. How machines end up in northern cold areas without the cold weather start options is beyond me. Often a 24V start system or at least a larger battery and starter.
Next time it needs a starter and if it's 12V . Use a Delco 44MT.[/QUOTE]

If its starting that hard, that explains the gasoline/ diesel fuel mix to lower to ititial combustion temperatures. Ether does a similar task as it raises the temperatures quickly for fast ignition. If it were me and it were going to stay 45 degs and colder I would add winter additive to the tank, number one diesel or kerosene. But winter additive can be bought cheap. It may just be needing an itial fuel system adjustment. But I'm not sure without looking at it.

 

[GManBart]

GManBart- it's funny that you mentioned forks as that will be my next project for this loader. As far as lift capacity goes I don't know for sure on the 164, I do know that the trojan 114 is around a 5 to 6k lb capacity machine so the 164 is somewhere north of that number. I can tell you that it lifted a 2k lb silage bale like it was nothing though

Very cool...that's a lot of lift capacity! When I was trying to look up specs on it, I saw a couple of similar machines for sale very reasonably...$3-5000. That really surprised me, but most were in your part of the country...RI, MA, etc. If this were close, I'd be really tempted at $3500 with nice tires, and a spare!

Trojan 164a, Phillipston MA - 110449490 - EquipmentTraderOnline.com

 

[buickanddeere]

Diesel fuel has a lower ignition temperature than gasoline. Gasoline does however tend to vaporize into a flammable mixture at lower temps than diesel.

 

[chrisdvorak]

The gas mixture makes sense now, I still don't think ill burn it though because I don't know for sure what the mixture is. I had it running for a few hours today and although it doesn't like to start it runs great! I've found if you don't give it enough ether at start up it just starts and dies repeatedly but like I said once its running there are no problems. Sounds like an oil pan heater ( at least) is in my future.

 

[buickanddeere]

Get rid of that can of either and install a coolant heater.

Page 41 of http://www.phillipsandtemro.com/userfiles/file/2013_ZEROSTART_CATALOG.pdf

 

[diesel lover]

The only way I ever spray ether is while the starter is cranking the engine over so the ether is pulled in evenly.
But to do this process safely may take two people. One to crank and one to spray.

On the oil pan heater, at 45 degsF they will not make a difference. They do not circulate the engine oil so in all respect they do not heat the block at all. Coolant heaters work best as they heat the engine by circulation. They heat the heads, cylinder walls and several other important parts near the combustion chamber.

Still here are some options, again like I said try to have someone crank on the engine while you "sniff" it (spray it). This may prevent the constant spray, crank and it dies over and over till it runs.

Try a different throttle position. If its out of adjustment a different throttle position will help.

If you have a heat gun for heat shrinking, etc you can put it inside the intake manifold and let it preheat the air for a little while. Soon you will pull in hot air and this may be enough to start it.

Like I said DO NOT trying cranking on the machine while spraying it. I would hate to see you get ran over unless the air intake is easy to reach from the cab. The compression may be low on the engine and now it won't start without a sniff of nose candy. Seen this happen before with owners who make a habit out of using either too many times.

On the loader itself, I have operated an old Michigan using it to move huge rocks and pull stumps. Quite a machine!!! Had rear wheel steering and no brakes whatsoever. You just shifted down and you up shifted right before putting it into reverse Then you down shifted it. Wasn't very large but there was so much it could accomplish! A very different machine from the kamatsu pay loader with a 5.9 Cummins I opperate today.

Nothing beats a loader with a Detroit two stroke. I'm quite jealous and think you got a great deal by the price and condition. A wheel loader like that will pull really good when hooked to a chain! You can pull out stuck vehicles like nothing. So much torque and traction to the ground!

 

[chrisdvorak]

I am going to order a coolant heater for the machine, in the meantime it has got very cold here and i need the loader to move snow. I was thinking would it be better to use a spray bottle with gas in it to replace the ether when first starting the machine? as the gas has a lower ignition point and is easier on the engine than ether. or is this a bad idea?