Gasoline Tractors are they coming Back ?

[jwmorris]

We still have 3 gas engine tractors that get used for different jobs. One problem with gas these days vs years past is if it doesn’t get used often, you need to search out ethanol free gasoline and it costs more. Either that or you run the system dry when you put it up and risk condensation in the tank, that causes rust.

Of course these days you would have injectors, O2 sensors, map sensor, coolant sensor, crank & cam sensors, electric high pressure fuel pump, catalytic converter and all of the wires running to an ECM. That’s the stuff that’s going to fail on a modern tractor that’s not issue on the old gas tractors that run on one wire. Of course modern diesel tractors also have the added complexity of electronics as well.

 

[Agvg]

Small gas engines needs turbo and intercooler to have any guts on low rpm.

 

[gary49]

They still exist up to 34 hp. I have one w/540 PTO, FWD & Loader. Sure is handy.

I need to be brought up to date. What are these gas tractors? The only thing I can think of that’s modern and gas is the resurrected Allis Chalmers G that I‘ve heard someone had started making. Had a B&S Vanguard engine, but I don’t think that would suit anyone who wasn’t truck farming. I’m not counting garden tractors as being part of this discussion.

 

[MossRoad]

I had a mid 70's IH2500b with a gasoline engine. I bought it used around 1990 with 4000+ hours on it and ran it for about 10-12 years. It was 50PTO HP and HST transmission. Tractor loader. Permanent mounted FEL with a 3pt hitch on the back. You could get it in gas or diesel when new. Backhoe or 3PT on the rear. It was an industrial tractor. Full cab. Weighed about 8000#.

All the specs between the gas and diesel were very similar. The only issue was that to run the HST efficiently, for maximum power and braking effect, the manual said to run it at PTO RPMs all the time. This was for both the gas and diesel versions. The gas model consumed more fuel than the diesel model. That's about the only difference, performance wise.

It was built like a tank. The engine was strong. The only issue I ever had with the engine was the gear spun off the distributor drive shaft. I had it welded back on. The end.

So I'm guessing the diesel would have been preferred for economy, as that's the only area where it outperformed the gas engine on that HST unit.

Now change it from an HST to a manual, and that would be a whole different story. The HST is just a power source spinning a pump. A manual is gears. A diesel has the lugging ability when applied to gears due to it's longer connecting rods. It can get into and stay into the torque curve more easily than the gas engine.

Do I see tractors going back towards gasoline engines? No.
Do I see tool platforms like my little PT425 going towards gas engines? Maybe.
Lawn tractors? gas
A lot of things going electric? Yes. Is that a good thing? For some yes, others no.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

 

[rScotty]

One thought for hand cranking the engine - adapt the crank to use a battery powered tool.

Many modern gas and diesel engines already have a battery powered electric tool like that built right into the back of the motor.

 

[deezler]

Next step will be electric, they are already out in different brands, but Kubota will have one out in "23".

Then a company already has engines coming out that are made to run on ethanol! I believe it's 89% ethanol, they are designed to be in heavy equipment.

SR

Wonder if you were thinking of this company. They can convert an HD diesel engine to run on pure Ethanol with relatively minimal modifications (all external and control side). My company is supplying them some special powertrain technology to try to boost efficiency further and move into large fleet sales.

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[deezler]

I don't buy this argument!

All my life diesel has been cheaper than gas, summer and winter. So why is it that in the last few years Diesel has become more expensive and not by a little. $2 a gallon more than gas is absolutely ridiculous. When I was young, my parents used to heat with oil and my father would deliver it to households. A lot of house use oil because natural gas was not available. So why was it cheaper then and until a few years ago. Why is it cheaper in Europe than here? Something else is going on. Or maybe someone can open my eyes to some reasonable explanation, not what we are fed by the media or fuel companies.

From my perspective, diesel has been more expensive than Gasoline ever since the <15ppm low sulfur mandate came online and Hurricane Katrina wiped out the refineries in the gulf. It's basically a question of supply/demand in the context of refinery output capability. You can only crack crude oil into so many flavors.

 

[nova3930]

There was a time when diesels were the simplest motors. They were entirely mechanical without any electrical systems or carburetors. Gas engines were better at just about everything else, and much less expensive because of the lower compression ratio.
I liked the gasoline industrial engines. They ran wonderfully smoothly at low RPM and started easily. Easy to maintain and rebuild. Lasted just as long as diesels. A much quieter engine and easy to control emissions.
I don't see any great advantage to today's diesels. For most things, the gasoline engines do better.
rScotty

I had an old Cat V60B forklift with a continental flathead in it. Fantastic little inline 6. Pulled the points and switched to electronic ignition, bypassed the shot mechanical fuel pump with an electric, rebuilt the carb and it purred like the day it was made. And if the head gasket goes, a man that knows what he's doing can swap one in 30 minutes flat....

 

[rScotty]

A gasoline engine that pulls and behaves as a diesel is not an simple construction, tryed a 1.3 130hp and that behaved as a diesel, a very impressive engine.

1.3 TCe H5Ht Engine - In-Depth Look at Design and Reliability

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I read it. My impression is that every single feature of that engine is directly opposite from the technically simple heavy cast-iron industrial gasoline engines that powered generations of farm tractors and machinery here in the US. Those industrial engines were powerful at low RPM, low heat and low compression, inexpensive, long lived, reusable, and easy to repair.
They had their era, were successful at it, and now would no doubt benefit from a redesign.

But the article describes a group of 1.3 TCe H5Ht engine developers who went off on their own hi-tech tangent.
It makes me wonder if they completely missed the original point. Missing the point is a surprisingly common mistake in development projects.

During my years in mechanical & industrial R&D, I saw some amazingly weird lame duck projects.

rScotty

 

[deezler]

Here's my thought experiment. A Chevy small block is a proven, lightweight, compact powerhouse.

Take their newest 5.3L v8, the ubiquitous choice for large SUVs and 1500 pickups. It makes nearly 300 lbf-ft of torque at 1500 rpm, and a full 100 HP already.

Now strip the cylinder deactivation, start/stop, and other unnecessary crap for a CUT application, and scale it down to an inline 3-cylinder (yes, you'd need to add a balance shaft, no big deal).

Now you have a naturally aspirated, simple gasoline pushrod 2.0L 3-cylinder that can make 38 HP and 110 lbf-ft of torque, theoretically. This would easily fit in our CUTs and burn hardly any gasoline when you're just loafing around doing basic work. Under sustained heavy load, it would surely burn more fuel vs our current diesels, but for guys like me that mostly do basic light-duty loader work? Who cares! It would be great. Keep in mind that my power figures were for just 1500 rpm! No reason not to rev it up to 3000 and BLOW away the power and torque that our current, lethargic diesels make. But at under 2000rpm, it should be pretty quiet and reliable.