Generac Whole Hose Generator

[timberwolves]

I was wondering if anyone has some advice for me. I have a remote camp that is off the grid no utility power. Our electrical needs are minimal, and we run our cabin off a Honda portable 3200 watt generator. I have obtained a Generac whole house back up generator from a friend. It is a 8KW 120 volt 66.6 amp propane unit with a 19 hp Briggs & Stratton motor. It does not have a transfer switch with it. This unit will have plenty of power for my needs. Double and then some. My questions are can this unit be wired directly to a electrical panel. What size propane tank will I need to supply this unit, the fuel consumption rate is 67 cubic ft. per hour at 100 % full load. Thank you John

 

[tommu56]

simple answer is yes it can be hooked up.
the propane issue you will need some large surface area for the propane 100 gallon or 3 or 4 100 lb tanks all on at the same time

my cabin is off grid I use propane for lights, cooking, refrigerator and generator when I needed power for 25 years

I added a solar system use it for lights well pump and power still have the gas lights and only use them if needed to take the chill off if its to warm for wood stove cooking, frig and water heater is still all propane.

tom

 

[hr3]

timberwolves.. Some questions.. and answers,,

**Does the honda supply all the needs you have now or are you going to be adding more power requirements??

** Do you use propane there now ??

The reason I ask is If your going to be hauling propane just for power it's going to be a pain in the butt,, Hauling gas it too but at least you have other uses for the gas.. " boat ,,,lawn mower ,, chain saw,, Also you will have to disconnect the battery every time you leave.. The control board uses 12 to run the exercise and without power to keep it charged it will die in a week... The unit weighs 550 lbs.. If you have a problem with it.. kinda big and bulky to take home and repair..

 

[Skyco]

Propane generators use lots of it and generally take a big tank to allow enough propane to boil off. IOW a small easily moved tank generally won't work well. In fact looking at the spec sheet, assuming a 20lb BBQ grill sized standard tank will vaporize enough fuel, at full load it will blow through a tank in only 3 hours!
Now if there is a large tank a delivery truck can get to...might be practical.

Personally I prefer diesel, thats what I run at my camp, easier to haul and I need it for my pickup and tractor anyway.

Don't know how timberwolves acquired the Generac- but if it was a gift with no strings attached I'd not put it at a remote camp. I'd either put it in at home or sell it and go diesel at the camp..just my opinion.
But yes it can be made to work just fine if one wants to deal with the fuel supply issues and realize it can't be left in "standby" without commercial power.

Curious about the B&S motor in it too...Generac usually uses their own line of motors, my Generac XL4000 portable has one, basically a Honda clone and its been great for many years of use.

 

[farmeratheart]

We have a Generac standby at home wired and plumbed the traditional way (transfer switch and hooked to the house's propane supply tank). However, at our remote camp we use a gas powered genny for our minimal electricity needs. One of our neighboring camps has a Generac wired up to be an "on demand" unit. That is-when electicity is called for by the water pump or a light being tuirned on the Generac fires up on its own. I haven't seen the set-up yet, but think it is pretty handy.

 

[Toyboy]

I had the same unit at my former home and I was flawless. I don't think your correct on propane consumption though. If I recall right it was something like 2.2 to 3.6 gal per hour depending on load. In all the years we had it, it was never taxed to full load. I would have had to have everything on and running all at the same time. Just don't happen. They did come (and still do) with a transfer switch.

The amount you use your camp will depend on tank size. Ideally a propane truck could access it, if not your going to be limited by the size you can handel. We had a 500 gal but that took care of the whole house also.

B&S calls for 10w 30 Mobil 1 in it also. My only glitch was having to max out the starting battery's amps because I happen to live in the far north and that particular day it was -25. After that it never missed a beat.

 

[techman]

Hey, I have a deal for you. I've got a Deutz powered 8KW cont 10 KW intermittent diesel generator I am selling. I went with diesel because the fuel will last forever and is a whole lot cheaper to run than propane. It uses about 0.4 gal/hr at 3/4 load. I got a new larger unit so I have one available.

paul

 

[Skyco]

. They did come (and still do) with a transfer switch.

According to the Generac site they are available either with or without the transfer switch..

 

[Jim Thompson]

Propane generators use lots of it and generally take a big tank to allow enough propane to boil off. IOW a small easily moved tank generally won't work well. In fact looking at the spec sheet, assuming a 20lb BBQ grill sized standard tank will vaporize enough fuel, at full load it will blow through a tank in only 3 hours!
Now if there is a large tank a delivery truck can get to...might be practical.

Personally I prefer diesel, thats what I run at my camp, easier to haul and I need it for my pickup and tractor anyway.

Don't know how timberwolves acquired the Generac- but if it was a gift with no strings attached I'd not put it at a remote camp. I'd either put it in at home or sell it and go diesel at the camp..just my opinion.
But yes it can be made to work just fine if one wants to deal with the fuel supply issues and realize it can't be left in "standby" without commercial power.

Curious about the B&S motor in it too...Generac usually uses their own line of motors, my Generac XL4000 portable has one, basically a Honda clone and its been great for many years of use.

Generac is now owned by B & S.

Jim

 

[DelSc]

We had a four day power outage a couple winters ago, and it gave me a good chance to track propane use on my 16kW Generac.

We have a 100 gal tank and operated the generator for about 75 hours during the four days, and used 75 gallons, so the generator used on average 1gal/hour while it was operating.

If my memory is correct, based on the Generac's literature, that fuel consumption rate corresponds to running the unit at about 1/2 power.

 

[timberwolves]

hr3. The Honda generator will be too small in the near future ie: well pump & some other additions to our camp. Yes we already use propane and will be expanding our use of it. Propane refrig.
skyco. I got the generac from a friend of mine with the intention of using it at our camp.
Toboy. I will be installing a large tank which can be filled by a propane co. Our propane needs are for running a stove to cook on, a refrig, a few wall mounted heaters, lamps & the generator.
Do you think it is not a good idea to use this generator the way I plan to use it ?

 

[dcyrilc]

hr3. The Honda generator will be too small in the near future ie: well pump & some other additions to our camp. Yes we already use propane and will be expanding our use of it. Propane refrig.
skyco. I got the generac from a friend of mine with the intention of using it at our camp.
Toboy. I will be installing a large tank which can be filled by a propane co. Our propane needs are for running a stove to cook on, a refrig, a few wall mounted heaters, lamps & the generator.
Do you think it is not a good idea to use this generator the way I plan to use it ?

I believe that most whole house generators are set up to supply power when primary power is lost and use primary power to keep the battery charged. It shouldn't be too difficult to rewire the generator to charge the battery from the generator output, but changing it over for 'on demand' usage may be more difficult. I would recommend contacting Generac to see what would be involved to make a conversion. At the very least I suspect that the circuit board would need to be changed. It could be run manually when needed, but I would expect battery issues if left for extended periods of time without the battery being charged.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I was wondering if anyone has some advice for me. I have a remote camp that is off the grid no utility power. Our electrical needs are minimal, and we run our cabin off a Honda portable 3200 watt generator. I have obtained a Generac whole house back up generator from a friend. It is a 8KW 120 volt 66.6 amp propane unit with a 19 hp Briggs & Stratton motor. It does not have a transfer switch with it. This unit will have plenty of power for my needs. Double and then some. My questions are can this unit be wired directly to a electrical panel. What size propane tank will I need to supply this unit, the fuel consumption rate is 67 cubic ft. per hour at 100 % full load. Thank you John

Too bad your generator won't deliver 240 volts at 33 amps. That would allow you to power both sides of a standard 240v. house panel. 120 volts will only power half the panel, which greatly complicates the neutral ground and increases the risk of shock. Are you sure there isn't a 240v. twist lock receptacle on the generator panel? 120v. only generators are normally small portable rigs meant for camping. The largest 120v. only generator I have ever seen was about 2400 watts (20 amps).

I can't imagine wanting a noisy thing like that around camp. I did rig up a camp generator a few years ago from an extra lawnmower engine, a GM heavy duty alternator (internal voltage regulator), one or two deep cycle batteries, and a 2000 watt inverter. Mostly I just used the 12 volt power straight off the battery, but once in a while I would use AC. DXing off a battery in camp can be great, because you can get miles from the nearest electrical interference.

 

[tommu56]

Too bad your generator won't deliver 240 volts at 33 amps. That would allow you to power both sides of a standard 240v. house panel. 120 volts will only power half the panel, which greatly complicates the neutral ground and increases the risk of shock. Are you sure there isn't a 240v. twist lock receptacle on the generator panel? 120v. only generators are normally small portable rigs meant for camping. The largest 120v. only generator I have ever seen was about 2400 watts (20 amps).
.

I don't under stand you reasoning of hazard of shock with a 120v source
My cabin is wired 120v and neutral only you only have to use the correct wire size and jumper both sides of the 120/n/120v panel and provide the correct over current protection in front of it.

I usually use a main lug panel with the correct size wire with the generator beaker protecting it or a another breaker of the correct size in front of panel if there isn't a breaker on gen.

BTW most RV's are wired for 120v 30a or 50 amps

tom

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I don't under stand you reasoning of hazard of shock with a 120v source

The typical house wiring uses two 120v. circuits 180 degrees out of phase, so the return current on the neutral bus cancels. If you have a balanced load, there is no current on the neutral bus at all. The load is rarely balanced, but it is usually close enough that there is only a few amps on the neutral bus.

If you are running the full current on the neutral, like you do with a 120v. supply, you can generate substantial voltage on the neutral bus. Essentially, there is no such thing as a neutral bus, because every cycle of alternating current puts 60 volts on the neutral 60 times a second. Even establishing a system ground will not cure this, because a typical system ground will display up to 25 ohms resistance. Compared to a standard 240v. system, the shock and electrocution danger of a 120v. system is extreme.

 

[Toyboy]

Didn't think about the battery. The gen set has a trickle charger built in that keeps the battery up while not in use. Oher than that, it should take care of all your needs.

 

[tommu56]

The typical house wiring uses two 120v. circuits 180 degrees out of phase, so the return current on the neutral bus cancels. If you have a balanced load, there is no current on the neutral bus at all. The load is rarely balanced, but it is usually close enough that there is only a few amps on the neutral bus.

If you are running the full current on the neutral, like you do with a 120v. supply, you can generate substantial voltage on the neutral bus. Essentially, there is no such thing as a neutral bus, because every cycle of alternating current puts 60 volts on the neutral 60 times a second. Even establishing a system ground will not cure this, because a typical system ground will display up to 25 ohms resistance. Compared to a standard 240v. system, the shock and electrocution danger of a 120v. system is extreme.

I am sorry to the OP to take this thread off course

I don't under stand you reasoning / reference to full current/voltage
What would happen if it was partial current partial voltage?

The neutral should have no potential on it in reference to ground
eliminating a shock potential in a correctly wired and grounded system.

Any white wire coming back from a 120v receptacle would have the same current as the hot wire to the same receptacle
The only point that the opposing leg current would cancel is on the neutral buss in the panel it would still have current on it till that point.

 

[hawkeye08]

Didn't think about the battery. The gen set has a trickle charger built in that keeps the battery up while not in use. Oher than that, it should take care of all your needs.

You might consider a small solar battery charger to keep the battery charged while you are not running the generator.

 

[podagrower]

Solar battery charger is a great idea. nothing worse than spending hours on the road, getting to camp, and finding a dead battery.

I'm sure there is a different rating on this unit for prime vs. standby use, but 8KW is a lot of power for camping.

Like Tommu said, just wire it up to a panel like a regular service. I would use a main lug panel (a 60 amp main breaker panel would be very hard to find), and land the wires on a 60 amp breaker to "back feed" the panel (main breaker retaining kit, ground rods, proper wire size, etc)

 

[tommu56]

You might consider a small solar battery charger to keep the battery charged while you are not running the generator.

I used a $29 hf solar battery charger in the picture window to keep the generator battery charged for years and a second one on the trolling battery for the radio (cabin is off grid)