Generator Selection?

[grsthegreat]

with generac they all sound like people that were extras on the series Fargo....yabetcha

 

[Industrial Toys]

Funny, us Canadians, at least here, have a habit of starting a conversation with asking, how are you? Call a US company, ask that, and there's always just awkward silence.

There are variations for different areas. How are you today? Or a local (Owen Sound Favorite) How Are you now? As opposed to when??? And they follow with, Are They Keepin Yah busy?

 

[Diggin It]

'How they hangin'?' doesn't work up there?

 

[grsthegreat]

Here in Idaho, as soon as someone says “Hay dude......” or “Hay Bro” we know where they are from

 

[Diggin It]

So, now the fourth promised ship date has passed unfulfilled.

I stopped in to my local dealer this morning and talked to them a bit. They can't even get the maintenance kits (filters, plugs, etc.) and are having to use NAPA or other sources. That does not bode well for G as far as being able to be trusted for service. He also says his local rep is hard to get ahold of and he has to call several times, then escalate.

Soooo .... then he started talking about Cummins and Champion, saying he has better results with them, can get better pricing and that they're not as backlogged. Also says he can contact the rep much easier.

Thoughts or experiences with those brands?

 

[grsthegreat]

No idea. I have no issue getting maint kits. Just got a big order in. Also, I ordered 90 oil filters, took about 2 weeks to ship.

Has nothing to di with generac, it has to do with the forced shutdown of assembly lines. People can't work close together. I get my rep on phone any time i try, no issues. Now getting gens and transfer switches...... good luck with any manufacturer. I have heard that cummins are also backordered, not sure about portables.

 

[Rustyiron]

I'd like to apologize for my early posting. I didn't realize that this was your post particular to making a purchase decision.
The guy that I bought my generator from is a generator business, by that I mean he sells and services homeowner units (Cummins) to multiple units at hospitals or other "big power" users. He didn't have anything nice to say about Generac, not that I'd expect him to about his biggest competitor in the homeowner market. My cousin was with me when I went to look at the machine I was interested in, he's an electrician and gets called by homeowners with generator problems and their all generac units. He said many, many "overspeed" codes along with some other recurring issue that I don't want to miss state. I can't make any specific suggestions, but haven't heard anything good about generac except the price.

 

[Diggin It]

The rep thing is probably as much about the rep as anything else.

Curious about the reliability of the units though. Cummins seems to use Kohler transfer switches from what I've seen in searches today.

 

[grsthegreat]

Onan used to make the best generators....cast iron block, 1800 rpm units. They sold that unit to cummins......not so good any more. I believe onan kept the RV line, but these may just be rebranded cummins...i really dont know as i do not service rv units. Generac has something like 90% of the residential market. Alot of the people bitching about generac units use an air cooled unit where they should be using a liquid cooled. They take a unit designed for emergency ..... occasional.... use and try to use it for primary off grid use. Doesnt end well. I used to work on cummins, briggs, generac and even some Catipiller units. I moved out of all the others because i was getting better access to tech support and parts with generac. I service 100’s of generators every year, and i really have very few issues with the generac units. When they do fail the parts are usually easy to come by and relatively inexpensive. Until you get to the rotor and stator. Personally i have never seen a failed one. But if the go....almost cheaper to replace unit.

I love the diesel generators, but i can only count on 1 hand customers willing to pony out the $$$ necessary to buy one. Here power outages happen, but are too rare to have someone spend up to 4 times the cost of an air cooled unit for a large diesel and fuel tank that meets epa storage requirements for use over the aquifer where i live. The last commercial diesel i was trying to put in had a requirement for diesel containment that would have outpriced the generator had i gone thru with the install.

The only think i like about the Kohlers over the generac were the hydraulic valve lifters. I HATE having to adjust valve lash.

But now generac 13 & 16 KW units (soon to be 14 and 18 kw as there increasing alternator sizes on that line) have hydraulic lifters. I personally do not find any more reliability in the actual generator between the lines. A 3600rpm screamer is only ment to be a backup power source. They are all about equil in reliability in that respect. There really is t much different in the mechanics between the lines.

Generac puts the system brains in the generator and the transfer switch is dumb. The rest seem to have smart transfer switches and dumb generators. Both work just as well as far as im concerned. During the last power outage here i received calls on both kohler and cummins units not working, along with 2 calls on generac units. I was able to resolve the 2 generac unit issues over the phone, but i told the other people that i no longer work on those brands. I dont have parts for them and have not kept up with their service manuals. So any brand can have issues.

My personal recommendation is to buy a brand that has service reps available in your area....and i mean a few different companies not just 1 guy that might be retiring (by the way im retiring) . I get calls about Generac units needing basic service that are 4 hours away from me. They say there are no local reps......not a good thing. And im not driving an 8 hour trip to service one. If you have no reps around, id say skip the whole house and go portable.

 

[Rustyiron]

"They take a unit designed for emergency ..... occasional.... use and try to use it for primary off grid use". thumbsup:
That's it in a nutshell, or "duty cycle ". I've heard that an oil change is required for 24hs of continuous run time for many of the 3600 rpm air cooled screamers. That is not unusual 'round here. I lucked out with my unit @ $4500 - 1057hrs sitting on the 200g base tank. That's no automatic switch gear, but one less item to give you problems and fine for our needs.

 

[grsthegreat]

"They take a unit designed for emergency ..... occasional.... use and try to use it for primary off grid use". thumbsup:
That's it in a nutshell, or "duty cycle ". I've heard that an oil change is required for 24hs of continuous run time for many of the 3600 rpm air cooled screamers. That is not unusual 'round here. I lucked out with my unit @ $4500 - 1057hrs sitting on the 200g base tank. That's no automatic switch gear, but one less item to give you problems and fine for our needs.

Actually, its check oil every 24 running hours, but replace oil and filter after 200 running hours or every 2 years whichever occurs first.,... at least for the generacs

 

[grsthegreat]

that package of filters and parts just arrived.....yah. what usually took 5 days took 2.5 weeks. miserable Covid

 

[daugen]

GRS, do the Generac 22kw units have an external oil cooler?
I was always impressed by how much air mine flowed through the unit, so if oil temp is managed, with synthetic oil, even 3600 rpm
should not be a problem. Of course I did kill some plantings in my flower bed from all that hot air blasting out...

 

[grsthegreat]

Yes, its a small oil cooling unit located in front of engine down low by fire wall.

 

[ultrarunner]

Even the big guys are slammed...

Have Onan/Cummins 150 standby rated that I have serviced since 1995...

Two years ago the authority having jurisdiction decreed factory trained annual service with load bank required... No more in house service using measured building load at 37% of rating going forward... Inspector said the only way I could continue is to be certified.

Unable to get a Saturday or Sunday service this entire year with Cummins saying they simply don't have anyone available and business hours service is out 11 weeks last I checked... too busy installing new units and maintaining rentals with CA fires and public safety power shutdowns.

 

[Diggin It]

Just now got a FedEx notice for a package from Generac with a scheduled delivery date of Sunday. (Sunday?)

.

 

[ultrarunner]

FedEx and Post Office and Amazon etc deliver Sundays here... just a parade of trucks all morning.

It was last Sunday morning at 11:30 when my car was ransacked by a person in a Brand New Jeep pirating porch deliveries. Twelve and counting in this little neighborhood and pics of the Jeep show it is really loaded down in back...

Following delivery trucks has become a new way of life and property Crime is almost never prosecuted.

Package thefts have become so prolific high value medical items now come with tracking chips.

 

[ultrarunner]

GRS...

Power scheduled to off minimum 24 hours and my retired friends with multiple medical needs need a whole house generator.

They asked me to ask you what model would you recommend for standby and if you have any SF Bay Area referrals?

Modest home with natural gas cooktop, space heat, water heating.

Electricity needed for battery operated medical devices, refrigeration, convenience lighting, furnace blower and single electric oven.

Due to medical condition the plan is to add 2 mini-split room A/C in future.

I pointed out Generac is updating some models and their need is low but basic residential gas meter/line also has limitations.

Is there a sweet spot in the Generac air-cooled line for them. At this point cost is secondary as being homebound getting gasoline and even going out to start their Honda 3000i makes then dependant on others...

 

[grsthegreat]

With split system heat pumps i would not go below the 16 kw current line, which will soon be 18kw. Seeing as hes all gas appliances i see no issues with loads you stated. Nat gas always cuts the output some with the generators anyways. Without the mini splits a 13 (soon to be 14kw) would probably work. Going bigger is always preferable because no one knows what may be added in future, that and a larger gen operating at 25-50% output gets better fuel efficiency than a small unit running full out. Last power outage we had lasted 14 hours and my 22kw averaged 5.8 kw and burnt 19.66 gal of fuel. Outage was mostly during the daytime and normally I would not have even run it except the wife had her quilting group meeting going on in basement. Have to keep her happy.

if the current ac system is a heat pump, you may need a 22kw, but it would depend on tonnage of unit and age of unit.

 

[ultrarunner]

With split system heat pumps i would not go below the 16 kw current line, which will soon be 18kw. Seeing as hes all gas appliances i see no issues with loads you stated. Nat gas always cuts the output some with the generators anyways. Without the mini splits a 13 (soon to be 14kw) would probably work. Going bigger is always preferable because no one knows what may be added in future, that and a larger gen operating at 25-50% output gets better fuel efficiency than a small unit running full out. Last power outage we had lasted 14 hours and my 22kw averaged 5.8 kw and burnt 19.66 gal of fuel. Outage was mostly during the daytime and normally I would not have even run it except the wife had her quilting group meeting going on in basement. Have to keep her happy.

if the current ac system is a heat pump, you may need a 22kw, but it would depend on tonnage of unit and age of unit.

Thank you... TBN always makes me look good...

16 to 18 kW...

Is this something a typical residential gas meter can power?