Getting Closer, Am I unfair?

shoppintractors · Aug 12, 2004

And that is exactly why I place so much emphasis on breakout force. You can dig into a pile, but it doesn't mean you can get the bucket back out with your load.

Bob, I don't mean to discount you emphasis on breakout force, but.... from my experience, if I went into a pile and the bucket could not lift, I merely bumped the hydrostat pedal in reverse, moved back an inch or three and the bucket would move right up. Until we have some side by side, actual comparisons I don't think we will know the real story.

 But I still contend that for the vast majority of users, it is absolutely a non-issue to say that the 3pt is superior because it can lift a bit more, because really only a very small % of users will ever get close to the capacity of the 3pt. 

I think you underestimate the group of tractor enthusiasts that frequent TBN. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I think a lighter tractor has an advantage on turf.
Don't really matter to me. I aerate every fall regardless.

So based on capabilities, I think you & I have to agree that the Kubota L3130 is the most capable of the original 3 tractors mentioned by the poster. 
Most definitely, comparing apples to oranges.

Of the remaining two, the DX33 and the CK30, I still would say that the DX33 is more of a tractor than the CK30, I suspect you would say exactly the opposite.

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif (Need I say more?)

 I think the combination of the DX33 & the 114 Loader, as an overall package simply overwhelm the added weight advantage (if it is even an advantage) of the CK30, 
I'll give you the DX loader is a "bit better" spec'd, however, the CK30 certainly makes an excellent case to pause, L/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gifK and compare.

 but the reality is I am right and you are wrong /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif 
Earth to Bob, Earth to Bob, Come in Bob, Can you hear me now Bob.......... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Don

Bob_Skurka · Aug 12, 2004

Don, be fair when you edit me! At least I used emoticons when I wrote I was right and you were wrong!!!

shoppintractors · Aug 12, 2004

Fixed Bob, /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Don

Bob_Skurka · Aug 12, 2004

Don, So did we settle this then?

OK let me start up a new issue.

Where does the CK25 fit in? While I like the CK30 and would prefer it to the B2910 sitting in the yard, I pretty much despise the CK25. Overweight, underpowered, basically a big lumbering oaf of a machine that underwhelms me in pretty much every way and is inferior to the TC24/DX24 for just about every task I can think of. Even with the better spec'd 130 loader, the CK25's size disadvantage would likely make slower to use in real life situations where manuverability is critical to loader work efficiency.

Any thoughts on this Don? /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

shoppintractors · Aug 12, 2004

Don, So did we settle this then? 
Bob, Bob, Bob.........

I do have one more thought on the breakout force issue. I don't see how you can utilize 2712 lbs. of breakout force and keep the rear wheels on the ground. That's more than the DX33 weighs. How much ballast do you think it would take to keep the rear wheels on the ground? If I buy into your 3 point hitch theory of excess lift capacity that will never be utilized, I guess the same would hold true about excess breakout force capacity. I would be curious to know what the static load capacity of the front axle is on the DX/TC 29/33.

 OK let me start up a new issue. 
Bob, the only problem with you & me debating all this is that it really is providing very little to the original poster in terms of useful information right now! Sound familiar?

Where does the CK25 fit in? 

It's been reported here the CK25 is in the neighborhood of $1700 less expensive than the CK30. Which to me makes it a "dollars that make sense" tractor. You'll be able to do just about everything a CK30 can do, probably not quite as fast and will probably need a little more finesse. Definitely a much nicer ride than the DX/TC24. Not everybody has to have the biggest friggin engine in the smallest frame available. $1700 will go a long way into buying additional implements.

 I pretty much despise the CK25. Overweight, underpowered, basically a big lumbering oaf of a machine that underwhelms me in pretty much every way and is inferior to the TC24/DX24 for just about every task I can think of. 

Bob, could you tell me what you really think and stop beating around the bush /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif. You sound a little pompass(sp?) -or- is that pompous /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif? Keep it up and I'll have to sneak you out the back door of the Kioti forum before you get mauled /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif by a crazed Kiotian.

Don

Bob_Skurka · Aug 12, 2004

OK Don, and just imagine if I really didn't like Kiotis?

By the way, operating any tractor, even with with upwards of 2700# of breakout force, without ballast is simply dangerous. Check out my tractors, I load the wheels and use ballast boxes.

KiotiJohn · Aug 13, 2004

( I pretty much despise the CK25. Overweight, underpowered, basically a big lumbering oaf of a machine that underwhelms me in pretty much every way and is inferior to the TC24/DX24 for just about every task I can think of. )
What surprises me Bob, about this statement is that you're basing your dislike stictly from read materials. You have never been on a CK25 or a CK30 as far as I can tell. You did say there is no dealer near you, right? I can't understand anyone making such a strong statement without ever having been on the subject. I have tried each of these tractors, and while I thought what you do about the CK25 before trying it, afterward I realized the tractor does a lot better than I had imagined it could. As a matter-of-fact, it was very strong, and easily maneuvered around.
I hope any new tractor people will not take your words to heart as they are really not fair to the tractor since you've never been on one. And I don't mean this in a nasty way to you at all, but I hope the buyers will not pass over the CK25 because they read that someone thought it was underpowered, a big lumbering oaf of a machine etc.
Until you've been on, and used this tractor, I don't think your statement of how inferior it is to the TC24/DX24 is based on anything more than "specing." I believe you're one of the people who have said that many of us are putting too much importance on buying by specs aren't you? John

Bob_Skurka · Aug 13, 2004

John . . . I wrote it as bait for Don . . . he didn't really bite on the bait as hard as I hoped.

Do I really feel that way. No. I don't like the CK25, but I don't despise it.

Was I willing to defend the position for the sake of hashing out the truth. Yup. That is what debates are for.

Now if you really want to know what I feel. I have stated before, numerous time, I like Kioti. Have I run any of them. No. I have seen 2 and looked them over. They were not on dealers lots. The fit and finish is excellent. The specs are pretty good. The designs (at least of the CK class machines) are at least as good as the big 3 machines, I especially like the no snag tail lights that can't be knocked off by branches and similar design features.

But I don't really like the CK25 because I do think it is too much of a compramise. For the very small price difference the CK30 has too many advantages to pass up when comparing it to the CK25, and those advantages come in the form of the added hp that will power larger implements. The CK25 will be limited to smaller box blades, smaller mower decks, smaller rear blades, etc. If you are going to be limited to the smaller implements, then I belive you should use a smaller tractor with similar power because it will be easier to manuver into tight spaces.

While the CK30 is an excellent machine, easily superior to the B7800/B2910 class from Kubota, I think the CK25 is much like a Corvette that has a 305 small block shoved under the hood instead of a big chunk of 454 muscle.

So while you hope new buyers won't pass over the CK25, I still fully believe they should simply overlook it and go to the CK30.

And I also believe that other tractor brands have machines that should be totally overlooked. The NH TC18, while many love it, seems to me to suffer from the very same problems. In fact NH dropped it from their product line. The same can be said for the TC35, same size as the TC40, hobbled by lower hp that limits implment size. But I generally like the TC29 & TC33 because while the 29 is a lower hp machine in the same size package, the hp matches up very nicely to the size of the machine. The JD 4010 is a machine that I see no use for. As well as several other models in their line up.

There is some practical limit to the hp/size ratio. Just because one frame is great with an engine does not mean another engine is also going to be great with that same frame. The reality is that some of these "in between" machines might make their owners happy because they don't know any better, but in the practical world, they are too big of a compramise. JMHO. And I think that it is fair and objective to like one machine and dislike another very similar unit. I don't bleed green or orange or blue or yellow or red or whatever. I study and I observe. I use and I listen. I make a lot of mistakes, and I learn from them. But one thing I also try to do is be objective in my observations of these tractors we all love to play with. So I am just as willing to trash my own brands as I am to compliment another . . . or visa versa, as the case may be.

MessickFarmEqu · Aug 13, 2004

more fuel for the fire....

Everyone knows a tractor goes way beyond the specs. IMO, the TC33 is way more tractor than the CK30 partly because it uses the transmission from its larger brothern. On our lot, its clear that it falls between a Kubota B and L, but costs as much as an L.

Also, loader lift numbers are only rough estimates. If a tractor is properly weighted they will always out do their ratted specs. Everyone can see this, just look at some of the things that people have done with their BX loaders and tell me it only will lift 460lbs /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

If I where in the market I would probably jump to the L3130, but thats me.

shoppintractors · Aug 13, 2004

OK Messick,

In another thread, regarding the CK30 you said, A B7800 is much more equal of a machine.
 Which has been proven to be far from the truth. The CK30, is a much more Deluxe Featured tractor with a far better FEL.

Fire extinguished. Period.

Don