GL5030 V. DK55
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Bob_Skurka
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Gambel77, you took two tractors that are not a match. They are designed for different purposes for different uses, they are different classes. Please re-read my post on the bottom of page 4. Based on YOUR words, you would pick the Tractor King.
All of this goes to a point that I have made 100 times on TBN. Any dealer that simply compares tractors to other tractors is just not serving the customer properly. The real thing to do is to define the TASK. You fail to do that.
Rather than comparing TRACTOR MODELS on a head to head basis, is it not better to define the tasks the user has to accomplish, rank them by importance, and then find the tractor best suited for the TASK?
I have often recommended other brands over Kioti based on that exact logic and I have occasionally recommended Kioti over other brands based on the same logic. Trying to compare MODEL X TO MODEL Y gets into arugements every time. No way around it. Simply because it does not factor in the tasks that need to be accomplished.
Lets face it, if you want to drill holes with a post hole digger you'd want high PTO horsepower and lots of manuverability. That would probably lead me to a Power Trac tractor.
If you want to mow the lawn then you want light weight and high PTO horsepower. That would probably lead me to a "B" series Kubota.
If you want to box blade your roadway, you need the traction that extra weight provides, so a Kioti would be an excellent choice.
It strikes me that a good dealer (I deal with 2 of those) spends as much time asking questions as he does answering them. He does his best to fit the tractor model to the buyer's task . . . just like a good shoe salesman would fit the shoe to the foot, but not sell a tennis shoe for jogging or a jogging shoe for golf. But for a dealer to engage in head-to-head comparisions seems to miss the point, and if the customer is doing that, then the dealer should do his best to educate the customer by reviewing what is actually needed to accomplish tasks, rather than what the customer thinks he needs, or what the customer wants to compare.
You go ahead and make silly comparisons.
Me, I choose to fit the tractor to the task at hand. In doing that, I would never compare a DK55 to a 5030, but I sure would compare it to a Tractor King. Because both would do similar tasks, but the Tractor King would do it for less money, in year round comfort, and have greater specs.
Again, you are the one who wrote you would choose the tractor with the greater standard features and greater specs. The tractor that costs less but offers more is the Tractor King tractor.
All of this goes to a point that I have made 100 times on TBN. Any dealer that simply compares tractors to other tractors is just not serving the customer properly. The real thing to do is to define the TASK. You fail to do that.
Rather than comparing TRACTOR MODELS on a head to head basis, is it not better to define the tasks the user has to accomplish, rank them by importance, and then find the tractor best suited for the TASK?
I have often recommended other brands over Kioti based on that exact logic and I have occasionally recommended Kioti over other brands based on the same logic. Trying to compare MODEL X TO MODEL Y gets into arugements every time. No way around it. Simply because it does not factor in the tasks that need to be accomplished.
Lets face it, if you want to drill holes with a post hole digger you'd want high PTO horsepower and lots of manuverability. That would probably lead me to a Power Trac tractor.
If you want to mow the lawn then you want light weight and high PTO horsepower. That would probably lead me to a "B" series Kubota.
If you want to box blade your roadway, you need the traction that extra weight provides, so a Kioti would be an excellent choice.
It strikes me that a good dealer (I deal with 2 of those) spends as much time asking questions as he does answering them. He does his best to fit the tractor model to the buyer's task . . . just like a good shoe salesman would fit the shoe to the foot, but not sell a tennis shoe for jogging or a jogging shoe for golf. But for a dealer to engage in head-to-head comparisions seems to miss the point, and if the customer is doing that, then the dealer should do his best to educate the customer by reviewing what is actually needed to accomplish tasks, rather than what the customer thinks he needs, or what the customer wants to compare.
You go ahead and make silly comparisons.
Me, I choose to fit the tractor to the task at hand. In doing that, I would never compare a DK55 to a 5030, but I sure would compare it to a Tractor King. Because both would do similar tasks, but the Tractor King would do it for less money, in year round comfort, and have greater specs.
Again, you are the one who wrote you would choose the tractor with the greater standard features and greater specs. The tractor that costs less but offers more is the Tractor King tractor.
BoneheadNW
Gold Member
Bob, what type of tractor would you suggest to shovel a load of "bull manure"? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Bone
Bone
Bob_Skurka
Super Member
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Bob, what type of tractor would you suggest to shovel a load of "bull manure"? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Bone )</font>
I'm no expert on that! Might want to check with Gambel77 on that one. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Bone )</font>
I'm no expert on that! Might want to check with Gambel77 on that one. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Bob, I really hope you aren't getting mad about this whole situation, I find it somewhat amusing.
I made a comparison between two tractors with around 45pto hp and about the exact same price. I do not in any way, shape, or form believe a 82hp tractor is in the same league as a 55hp tractor...and I hope you don't either.
And your right Bob, I choose the tractor with the greater specs and features based on the criteria of hp and $$ based on sheer states. I never once said the DK55 would be the better tractor for job A or job B. I have never once argued the fact that these tractors are different classes. I even tried to compared the M5000 to the DK55.
I never once have defined the task because I have not needed to. I had an opportunity to take side by side pictures of a Kubota and a Kioti, something I rarely have to do. I posted the pictures and told everybody to take them for what they were. In my first post I never said anything about which was better than the other.
Bob surely you understand that I understand the difference between the two tractors. But I also understand at the same time that all too often these tractors are compared to eachother. I did not publish these pictures to impress anyone with the Kioti over the Kubota but rather to impress upon everyone the difference between the two machines.
I made a comparison between two tractors with around 45pto hp and about the exact same price. I do not in any way, shape, or form believe a 82hp tractor is in the same league as a 55hp tractor...and I hope you don't either.
And your right Bob, I choose the tractor with the greater specs and features based on the criteria of hp and $$ based on sheer states. I never once said the DK55 would be the better tractor for job A or job B. I have never once argued the fact that these tractors are different classes. I even tried to compared the M5000 to the DK55.
I never once have defined the task because I have not needed to. I had an opportunity to take side by side pictures of a Kubota and a Kioti, something I rarely have to do. I posted the pictures and told everybody to take them for what they were. In my first post I never said anything about which was better than the other.
Bob surely you understand that I understand the difference between the two tractors. But I also understand at the same time that all too often these tractors are compared to eachother. I did not publish these pictures to impress anyone with the Kioti over the Kubota but rather to impress upon everyone the difference between the two machines.
thcri
Elite Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
Bottom line gentlemen is when customers, who know nothing about tractors, start to compare they look at two things first, hp and $$. )</font>
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( No my friend, I took two tractors in the same hp range and price range and compared them...I took two tractors people actually compare and compared them...you did not. )</font>
I think your customers may know more than what you think, and if these customers that don't know nothing about tractors make this type of mistake, then why would you make the same comparison.
Again constuctive criticism my friend, educate your customer. There would be nothing wrong with telling these customers that these two tractors are not a fair comparison, Kubota is a compact while the Kioti is a utility or vice versa.
And I sure wish everybody would get this weight issue out of their heads. Weight does not make a quality tractor. It has it's advantages and it has it's disadvantages. Again go back to what Bob is saying about the task.
murph
Bottom line gentlemen is when customers, who know nothing about tractors, start to compare they look at two things first, hp and $$. )</font>
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( No my friend, I took two tractors in the same hp range and price range and compared them...I took two tractors people actually compare and compared them...you did not. )</font>
I think your customers may know more than what you think, and if these customers that don't know nothing about tractors make this type of mistake, then why would you make the same comparison.
Again constuctive criticism my friend, educate your customer. There would be nothing wrong with telling these customers that these two tractors are not a fair comparison, Kubota is a compact while the Kioti is a utility or vice versa.
And I sure wish everybody would get this weight issue out of their heads. Weight does not make a quality tractor. It has it's advantages and it has it's disadvantages. Again go back to what Bob is saying about the task.
murph
Bob_Skurka
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
Bob surely you understand that I understand the difference between the two tractors. But I also understand at the same time that all too often these tractors are compared to eachother. )</font>
And that is the KEY to my point, you know the difference but you fall into the trap. Comparing tractors is just a silly exercise no matter what tractors are compared.
One of the biggest reasons for dealing with the 2 tractor dealers I deal with is because they refuse to compare tractors in a senseless and trivial way. No way would either dealer ever doing anything this silly. If I was a dealer I would ask questions about what jobs the person wanted to do, what conditions were to be encountered, what capabilities were needed.
While I am not a tractor dealer, I can tell you that when I sell against my competition, I ask questions, and most often I talk customers out of their naive preconieved notions. My job is to give them the best 'fit' for their needs . . . that has absolutely nothing to do with what my customer thinks because he comes to be knowing that I know more than he does. I hope you know more than your customers. I hope you don't make the mistake of comparing tractors. Because if you do, then anyone of your competitors can simply 'play that game' and beat you at it, much like I proved the Tractor King is the better value here.
An educated professional salesman would find out the tasks, and then provide the best tool for the tasks, without degrading or even comparing any other brand.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
Bottom line gentlemen is when customers, who know nothing about tractors, start to compare they look at two things first, hp and $$)</font>
And just to reinforce my points, that is the wrong way to look at things, but if I was selling next door to you, I would surely show them an 82hp tractor with a Perkins engine, FEL and a Cab and then I would point across the parking lot at your 55hp tractor without a cab or Front Loader, and I would ask them why you overcharge for your tractor. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Bob surely you understand that I understand the difference between the two tractors. But I also understand at the same time that all too often these tractors are compared to eachother. )</font>
And that is the KEY to my point, you know the difference but you fall into the trap. Comparing tractors is just a silly exercise no matter what tractors are compared.
One of the biggest reasons for dealing with the 2 tractor dealers I deal with is because they refuse to compare tractors in a senseless and trivial way. No way would either dealer ever doing anything this silly. If I was a dealer I would ask questions about what jobs the person wanted to do, what conditions were to be encountered, what capabilities were needed.
While I am not a tractor dealer, I can tell you that when I sell against my competition, I ask questions, and most often I talk customers out of their naive preconieved notions. My job is to give them the best 'fit' for their needs . . . that has absolutely nothing to do with what my customer thinks because he comes to be knowing that I know more than he does. I hope you know more than your customers. I hope you don't make the mistake of comparing tractors. Because if you do, then anyone of your competitors can simply 'play that game' and beat you at it, much like I proved the Tractor King is the better value here.
An educated professional salesman would find out the tasks, and then provide the best tool for the tasks, without degrading or even comparing any other brand.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
Bottom line gentlemen is when customers, who know nothing about tractors, start to compare they look at two things first, hp and $$)</font>
And just to reinforce my points, that is the wrong way to look at things, but if I was selling next door to you, I would surely show them an 82hp tractor with a Perkins engine, FEL and a Cab and then I would point across the parking lot at your 55hp tractor without a cab or Front Loader, and I would ask them why you overcharge for your tractor. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( An educated professional salesman would find out the tasks, and then provide the best tool for the tasks, without degrading or even comparing any other brand. )</font>
Couldn't agree more. Which is why I think these pictures do a great job of showing the differences between these two tractors. The differences between the two might be good for the Kioti or the Kubota depending on uses.
Just last month I have a genleman buy a FarmTrac 360DTC from me because he needed the most capable 3000lbs tractor that he could find, and the FarmTrac was the best out of the one he looked at...in his case he couldn't have a tractor that weighed more than 3000lbs...
Again, not to impress just impress upon...
Couldn't agree more. Which is why I think these pictures do a great job of showing the differences between these two tractors. The differences between the two might be good for the Kioti or the Kubota depending on uses.
Just last month I have a genleman buy a FarmTrac 360DTC from me because he needed the most capable 3000lbs tractor that he could find, and the FarmTrac was the best out of the one he looked at...in his case he couldn't have a tractor that weighed more than 3000lbs...
Again, not to impress just impress upon...
Bob_Skurka
Super Member
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You obviously miss the point. Utilizing the photos the way you do proves that. Have a nice day.
JerryG
Super Member
This isn't meant at anyone specific person.
How many first time customers do you actually think knows the different between what is called a compact tractor or what is called a utility tractor? Doesn't everyone believe that most customers compare Hp, perhaps lift and then how comfortable the tractor is to them?
How many first time customers do you actually think knows the different between what is called a compact tractor or what is called a utility tractor? Doesn't everyone believe that most customers compare Hp, perhaps lift and then how comfortable the tractor is to them?
I expect most customers compare price, which is the point Bob was making with the Foton, you can get way more for your money with a Foton than a Kioti, and the origional post was saying how you can get more for your money with a Kioti than a Kubota.
I could compare features of tractors I wanted all day long, but at the end of the day I think price would have a massive baring on the choice. Thats the whole point of this post, saying how Kioti is cheaper for what you get thatn Kubota, we could compare features and disregard money and then we would end up with a Deere (actually you guys are a bit charged so maybe the JOKE was a bit misplaced)
I could compare features of tractors I wanted all day long, but at the end of the day I think price would have a massive baring on the choice. Thats the whole point of this post, saying how Kioti is cheaper for what you get thatn Kubota, we could compare features and disregard money and then we would end up with a Deere (actually you guys are a bit charged so maybe the JOKE was a bit misplaced)
tractorhill
Silver Member
I like Bob view, If You got 10 different jobs Yov buy 10 different Tractors
IH3444
Elite Member
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Great photos, loved looking at the Rural King 82hp Perkins powered tractor. What a treat, and 82 chinese ponies for the price of 55 korean ponies. Whatch deal. Thanks Bob! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
HODAK
Gold Member
What is a Tractor King?
The only tractor King I know is Rick Wallace and I believe Amy would have to be the tractor Queen! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Lighten up fellas!
The only tractor King I know is Rick Wallace and I believe Amy would have to be the tractor Queen! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Lighten up fellas!
Dodgeram
Gold Member
I agree with Hodak completely, lighten up folks. We're talking tractors here /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
If you confrontational types need a "fix", go over to TDR and say "my cummins is better than your powerjoke". That'll keep you going for hours.
BTW, as I don't visit the Kubota forum, does this bickering go on over there also?
If you confrontational types need a "fix", go over to TDR and say "my cummins is better than your powerjoke". That'll keep you going for hours.
BTW, as I don't visit the Kubota forum, does this bickering go on over there also?
Donnyj
Platinum Member
Hey IH3444, does this mean you are trading that blue one in on a much better value tractor??? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
RedDog
Platinum Member
You say you see no comparison in looks. So does that mean you think they look similar or not? I am comparing looks, and I believe they look very similar DK's vs new M's.
<font color="blue"> And everytime a Chevy guy comes into our office and bad mouths another product we pretty much tell him to leave. </font>
I guess we had better quit talking now. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
With several members on here touting how wonderful this Rural King (tractor king) or whatever you call it is, I'm surprised you do not find one in your size!! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I have never seen a Tractor king, but when I hear Chinesse tractor I tend to shun away. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I have to give them credit on the motor. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Gentlemen please tell me what Kubota model my DK65 competes against. I know which model I think it does.
Don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm really enjoying this thread!!
RedDog
<font color="blue"> And everytime a Chevy guy comes into our office and bad mouths another product we pretty much tell him to leave. </font>
I guess we had better quit talking now. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
With several members on here touting how wonderful this Rural King (tractor king) or whatever you call it is, I'm surprised you do not find one in your size!! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I have never seen a Tractor king, but when I hear Chinesse tractor I tend to shun away. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I have to give them credit on the motor. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Gentlemen please tell me what Kubota model my DK65 competes against. I know which model I think it does.
Don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm really enjoying this thread!!
RedDog
Dargo
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( With several members on here touting how wonderful this Rural King (tractor king) or whatever you call it is, I'm surprised you do not find one in your size!! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I have never seen a Tractor king, but when I hear Chinesse tractor I tend to shun away. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I have to give them credit on the motor. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif )</font>
Actually early last year I did compare the DK65 Kioti to the Tractor King 82 hp model. If I were to buy one of them, I definitely would have bought the Tractor King. As mentioned earlier, they do beat Kioti at their own game; size, weight, and price. I'd have a heck of a lot more tractor with quite a bit more power for over 10K less money. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif That's one heck of a lot more "bang for your buck" as I hear people say here quite often.
For me, neither of the two were anything that I would be interested at the current time for the things I need to do, so I stayed with what I have.
I have never seen a Tractor king, but when I hear Chinesse tractor I tend to shun away. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I have to give them credit on the motor. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif )</font>
Actually early last year I did compare the DK65 Kioti to the Tractor King 82 hp model. If I were to buy one of them, I definitely would have bought the Tractor King. As mentioned earlier, they do beat Kioti at their own game; size, weight, and price. I'd have a heck of a lot more tractor with quite a bit more power for over 10K less money. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif That's one heck of a lot more "bang for your buck" as I hear people say here quite often.
For me, neither of the two were anything that I would be interested at the current time for the things I need to do, so I stayed with what I have.
RedDog
Platinum Member
So Dargo you would buy the 82HP Tractor King over the 65HP Kioti and pocket your savings,,, fair enough.
Tell me what model Kubota my tractor competes against? And while were at it, what model Kubota competes against the Tractor King?
RedDog
Tell me what model Kubota my tractor competes against? And while were at it, what model Kubota competes against the Tractor King?
RedDog
albmn10
Gold Member
I just did a little reaearch on the Rural King Dargo and Skurka are tying their reputations to. The info didnt look promising guys from the posts i read in another chat room??? But no one here in on tbn will judge your decisions if you choose to upgrade from your Kubotas and step up to a Rural King..
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