Got my Applicators License, now what?

[chh]

I've never used liquid fertilizers, except the hose end type, but I was looking at them the other day. They seem to be a slightly more expensive alternative to grannular types but I need to do some more research. I was thinking that mixed with 2-4-D, I might get two jobs done at once and it might actually increase the effectiveness of the 2-4-D a little because of the way 2-4-D works. I don't know if that last part is right, I'm only guessing.

I have been looking at the liquid fertilizer some too thinking I might accomplish 2 things with one pass. The kind I can get locally only calls for a rate of 1 pint per acre. Somehow I don't see that doing a lot to boost growth, but I'm still looking. A lot of the local guys won't hardly use anything but the Grazon P+D. You can spray it later in the season(late May or Early June) and get a kill on a broader spectrum of weeds. I am trying to spray 2,4-D now and all the rain we are getting has made it too muddy to get around easily. I have been getting good results on what I have gotten done so far though on a 1.5 pints/acre mix. I like to use about 15 gal. of water an acre to get good coverage.

 

[tanglefoot]

Eddie,
Congratulations on passing the test.
I got mine 15 years ago, but with the CE's you have to go back for, it's like taking the exam every 5 years.
My advice is that you should not use MSMA on pastureland. It may or may not kill nutsedge, but it will kill Bahia and crabgrass. Plus the fact that it is bad for any kind of grazing animal.
I use Grazon P+D to kill most broadleaf weeds in my pastures, but I have found a different formulation of 2,4D which is cheaper and works just as well for me. It's called RangeStar, and it's made by Agri Star. It contains 2,4D and Dicamba. Grazon P+D contains 2,4D and Picloram. You will need to tank mix some surfactant with either material, and my son says it makes a difference which goes into the tank first. Before I spray in June I plan to ask which. I'll let you know, if you'd like.
I spray Remedy from a pump sprayer mixed with water or diesel for woody plants that grow where they're not wanted. That stuff's too expensive to tank mix in the big sprayer.
Butch

 

[EddieWalker]

Thanks for the advice and tips. I'm hopeful that I'll have my license this week and as soon as I get it, I plan to go shopping. My sprayer is ready to go, so it's just a matter of what to buy and coming up with how much to mix with the water, and then how much to spread over the grass.

My latest question is should I mow the grass before spraying? I think that the chemicals work through the leaves of the weeds, so I think that leaving the plants alone is the smart thing to do. More leaves will mean more chemicals that end up on the leaves. Then I'm thinking that if I mow, the ends of the weed will be exposed and might absorb more chemicals that way. This might also mean killing my bermuda, which would be bad. If the grass is cut, then I'm wondering if I'll get more of the chemicals on the weeds that would otherwise be blocked by the tall grass.

Eddie

 

[chh]

The chemicals are absorbed thru the leaves so I would not mow. Use a slower tractor speed with more water and less chemical in the tank(same rate per acre) to make sure everything gets covered. That is the way the Ag extension guys recommended to me anyway. Getting your speeds determined and the amount water you are putting out are the 2 most critical steps to calibrating a sprayer. Those numbers and swath width tell you how much chemical to put in the tank.

Here is a clip from where I posted on a converstion about 2,4-D last May. It gives the basic setup and calibration for my setup.

If your sprayer is new, be sure and get the owners manual. It should have a chart for the nozzle(s) on your sprayer. After you fill it with water and adjust the pressure (20 to 50 psi is a common recommendation, high pressure can atomize the chemical more and cause more wind drift problems)use a container or trash bag(works great for boom busters) to catch the output for a measured time to get your GPM. Check that against the chart. Find a speed on your tractor that will give you at least 12 gallons of water per acre, 15 is the common recomendation for 2,4-D in Oklahoma. The recommended rate for early broadleaf weeds if 1.5 pints per acre. At a 15 GPA spray rate you could do 4 acre on a tank, so you would need 6 pints of 2,4-D. I have used the cheap dishwashing liquid, but I prefer the commercial adjuvant. It is $10.50 a gallon locally and I use 1 quart in a 500 gallon tank. Any more than that and I get too much foam in the tank. Most recommendations also to not spray in winds over 10 mph to help keep wind drift down.

AS an example here are the specs for my setup.
I can adjust to 40 psi at 1500 engine rpms to get a smooth pump flow(and have adequate power for the tractor to pull steadily). At that RPM in seventh gear I get 4 mph(100 feet in 17 seconds). That also give me a rate of 15 GPA coverage(with boombuster nozzles), 500 gallons covers 33 acres x 1.5 pints equals 49.5 pints (6.2 gallons) of 2,4-D per tank

 

[jcummins]

The test. Can you give an example of the types of questions on the test? I got my name in for the class....waiting for enough to sign up so they will conduct the class locally. Not sure I can wait for that....we'll see. But I know will take the test at some point.

 

[EddieWalker]

chh

Thank you for the detailed reply. That really helped allot!!!

One more question. Does it say on the container how long to wait after a rain to spray? Or if a rain is expected, how much time should there be before spraying? With the way our weather is lately, I'm getting rain almost every day. Sometimes it's just a quick, light shower, other times, it's almost 3 inches.

I'm also worried about mud and creating ruts. But mostly , I'm just hoping to get the best results that I can when I spray. With all the rain we're getting, and the warmer temps, the grass and weeds are growing like crazy. It hurts to not go out and mow them, but I'll wait until I've sprayed first.

Which leads to another question. How long do you wait to mow after spraying?



jcummins

There were questions about cleaning and disposing of the containers. There was about ten questions on identifying plants and animals. There were ten of those and I never studied them, nor did they come up on the video. I think there were ten math questions, but I'm not sure on that number. They allowed us to have calculators, and the use of a formula was provided, so you just had to read through the questions and figure out what part of the question was relevant to the formula, and plug in the numbers. Other questions were about posting signs, informing neighbors, what to wear, what is a herbicide, and how often to check on employees who are spraying your farm under your license when you are not present.

It was all multiple choice and most of the questions were common sense type things that were covered under the video that we watched. There was a worksheet that they handed out, and an answer sheet for the worksheet. From what I could tell, everyone else in the class just followed along on the answer sheet. I don't know what they already knew, but I went in there totally ignorant of any of it. I wrote down everything in the worksheet. Then when the video went over the questions on the worksheet, I corrected my mistakes, or filled in the parts that I had missed. Allot of that was on the test, and that's all that I really needed to pass the test.

It was a boring class, but there's no getting around it. I just sat through it and tried to stay as active as I could with the worksheet. If I had tried to follow along with the answer sheet and just listened to the video, I probably would have fallen asleep. Writing down the answers on the worksheet worked for me.

I mentioned that one guy failed the test before I turned mine in. I was probably about the middle of the class in finishing my test. I have no idea if anybody else failed it. I turned mine in, got my forms and left.

Eddie

 

[chh]

After a light shower works very well. It seems the chemicals really work great on wet leaves. I am not sure right off what the label says but, I generally hope for at least 4 hours before a rain(so far I have gotten lucky). There is a label warning(as I recall) about spraying into standing water. You will start to see the weeds wilting down overnight, but I think I would give it a few days at least before I mowed.
We are in the same weather pattern here in OK. I need to be spraying weeds now, but I am doing hayfields and really would prefer not to make a lot of ruts.

 

[tanglefoot]

Eddie,
I live northeast of Dallas about 50 miles, and we are having the same weather patterns here as you have. To make sure I get the best results when I spray, I usually try to spray on a still morning (wind not over 8 mph). Following a light rain or heavy dew seems to work fine. Herbicides work best when sprayed on a vigorously growing plant, so if you mow, wait a couple of weeks to spray, at least. If you use the right herbicide at the right rate, you shouldn't hurt your bermudagrass at all. I've found that the weeds I'm trying hardest to control by spraying early in the growing season will come back late in the summer when they are harder to control. I've also found that I do a better job of controlling them if I wait until mid-June, generally.
Good luck.
Butch

 

[Airsafety]

One more question. Does it say on the container how long to wait after a rain to spray? Or if a rain is expected, how much time should there be before spraying? With the way our weather is lately, I'm getting rain almost every day. Sometimes it's just a quick, light shower, other times, it's almost 3 inches.

Which leads to another question. How long do you wait to mow after spraying?

Eddie,

Spraying immediately after a rain is OK - in fact, the high humidity will actually get more of the mix to the ground. The fine droplets actually evaporate before they get to the ground on a very dry day. Four hours after a rain is generally OK, but the main thing is the foliage should be dry before the next rain and that will depend on the humidity.

Don't mow until the weeds are dead. Remember the chemical works by "over growing" the weed so the roots can't support it. Mow and you remove the load from the plant and they often recover.

If wind actually becomes a problem, there are commercial additives which reduce drift by reducing the fine droplets. Nalcotrol (or something like that) was one we often used. Drift is much more of a problem with aerial application than ground rigs because ground rigs use a high enough application rate that you can set up the nozzles for a very course spray where aircraft need the fine spray to insure good coverage.

You got good advice on calibration. Just remember that the critical factor is the amount of chemical per acre. The water just gets it to the target.

Best,

John

 

[chh]

I've never used liquid fertilizers, except the hose end type, but I was looking at them the other day. They seem to be a slightly more expensive alternative to grannular types but I need to do some more research. I was thinking that mixed with 2-4-D, I might get two jobs done at once and it might actually increase the effectiveness of the 2-4-D a little because of the way 2-4-D works. I don't know if that last part is right, I'm only guessing.

I asked around at the place that sells the liquid fertilizer locally yesterday. They recommend a 2 pint/acre mix(base rate is 1 pint/acre). That will cost $6/acre over what you are already spending on chemical. They claim that you do not need to use a surfactant($.50 per acre cost savings) if the fertilizer is in the tank, that is replaces it and that it will significantly boost the effectiveness on most chemicals. He put the cost into the perspective that $6 is the price of one square bale locally and that it will boost production per acre more than that. He did recommend trying it for myself, by splitting a field or two and doing half with the fertilizer and half without. His claim was that most people who do that see enough result to buy it again.

Here is a link to the only brand sold locally.
Monty's Plant Food | Foliar plant food for promoting new root and top growth and larger foliage

May have to give a field a try if it ever drys up enough to spray.

 

[EddieWalker]

My license arrived on Saturday. It's really just a piece of yellow paper that has my name printed on it, with some information on what I can buy. I must admit to being disappointed in seeing it, but then again, nobody wasted any money creating it.

I spoke with a few people, plus took notes on suggestions from here. I decided to go with an initial application of 2,4-D. Figuring it my rate of application, mixture and coverage was just about more then my brain could handle. I went with one gallon per 100 gallons of water at a very slow speed.

A few months ago, I bought a 275 gallon, square tank that had been used for a red colored syrup of some kind. I washed it out and put it on my ATV trailer. Then I saw some sprayer tips for sale at Northern Tool that spray 16 feet out. I put one at the end of each boom for a total spray width of 31 feet. The boom was a challenge, but the more I thought about it, the simpler it became. When I built it, I think I had it down to the very simplest design possible. I also want it to be quick and easy to take apart for storage. The pump is a 12v unit that I turn on and off with an inline 110v switch that hangs down near my ankle. The switch is really simple and easy to use. I turn it on, and I have spray coming out instantly. I turn it off, and it's not pumping any more.

While buying the two gallons of 2,4-D I noticed some dye to show up where I sprayed. Since I don't know what I'm doing, I bought it so that I could see where I'd been and hopefully avoid spraying the same area twice.

During the week, I had been playing around with the sprayer and water in the tank. How far did it spray and what was it like to operate it. This proved to be very helpful and allowed me to know a little bit of what to expect before the real thing.

This morning, I sprayed. It went really smoothly, so that was a shock. I didn't know what to expect, but mostly it was just a challenge to spray the grass and keep it out of the trees. The width was also a challenge to get it through the trees. Fortunately, it's very quick and easy to stop the pump.

Now it's a matter of time until it take effect. Any thoughts on how long it takes to work?

Thank you,
Eddie

 

[chh]

You a should start seeing results overnight. Ragweed and most broadleafs should be starting to curl up, though it will take a few days for them to die completely.

 

[dmccarty]

Last year I bought a pint or a quart of blue spray marker for my huge 4 gallon backpack sprayer. Just used the spray, marker and roundup type stuff Friday.

BE VERY careful wit the marker. If it gets on you its kinda wants to stay. And I don't care HOW careful I am, even wearing gloves that stuff gets on you. Friday was really bad because I bent over slightly with the back pack sprayer and the stuff spilled out on my head and neck. I looked like one of those Blue men drummers.

Alcohol seems to get off the dye pretty good once water stops working.

They marker DOES help you know where you have sprayed. Tis worth the mess.

Later,
Dan

 

[EddieWalker]

chh,

Thanks, I went out there this morning and noticed what I thought was some curl in a few of the plants. The sort of look like they are drooping just a bit. I'm hopeful that's the poison at work. I really want to mow, it's killing me to wait, but I know I need to be patient for the poison to work it's way to the roots.

Maybe I'll be able to mow next week. I have an area of a few acres that I didn't spray and can mow, it's going to be built up and then covered in gravel one of these days, so there's no point in trying to make it pretty.

Dan,

For 200 gallons, I just used about a quarter of the bottle of die, and it turned everything blue. You're right about how well it stains your skin!!! I had blue fingers all day Sunday!! Funny think, it's gone today and I didn't do anything special to remove it. I also sprayed some on my white vinyl fence and was wondering if that was something I'd have to live with. I looked for it this morning, and it's not there anymore. We haven't had any rain, so I think it just sort of fades away after a couple of days. It is nice to know where I've sprayed . Especially in the wooded areas where I'm turning the pump on and off allot as I go through the trees. I can see the blue dots on the plants as I drive by them on the tractor and then see where there are no blue dots.

I hope you had somebody take your pictures with the blue die all over you??? That would have been pretty funny, but one of those things that it's better to see on you then on myself. LOL

Eddie



Eddie

 

[dmccarty]

We had a good 1/2 inch of rain about 24 hours after I sprayed. The blue is all gone. I left the sprayer, die bottle and roundup stuff outside to wash off in the rain. For some reason it was all blue.

My red neck was blue when I went into the house. Funny thing was the wifey did not say much. I had to ask her if I was blue and she just kinda shook her head yes with that way they have that says you ain't all there.

The twitching I developed after spraying pretty much stopped on Sunday.

I still have some blue on my fingers. The cheap throw away gloves don't seem to work so well with this stuff. I'm going for thicker gloves next time.

It does look like the nut sedge is dieing. The TBN thread on nut sedge is when I realized we had nut sedge. After reading the thread and seeing the stuff pop up again this year I'm wondering if we should plant it in the "yard", call it grass and declare victory.

That stuff DID grow through our landscape fabric in the garden. The fabric is keeping the weeds down but as someone said the sedge can grow through the fabric. Hoping turning the sedge BLUE will stop the growing.

Later,
Dan

 

[charlz]

I use that blue marker when spraying along the driveways etc. shows up way better on dirt than grass. With the ATV sprayer I only need a few ounces so I have the bottle where you loosen the one cap, squeeze it up into the little measure compartment, take the cap off and dump it into the tank. I loosened the cap, started squeezing, idly remembered that I really should be wearing latex gloves, thought "why isn't this stuff going up?" about that time the little cardboard piece inside the cap, which had glued itself to the top of the bottle over winter, let go and marker came gushing out from under the cap all over both hands

 

[dmccarty]

I use that blue marker when spraying along the driveways etc. shows up way better on dirt than grass. ...
I loosened the cap, started squeezing, idly remembered that I really should be wearing latex gloves, thought "why isn't this stuff going up?" about that time the little cardboard piece inside the cap, which had glued itself to the top of the bottle over winter, let go and marker came gushing out from under the cap all over both hands

Welcome to the Blue Man Club.

Sounds like we might have the same bottle. Even with gloves I still got that stuff on my hands.

Later,
Dan

 

[CrownHawg]

Eddie you amaze me all the time on how clever you are at "putting together" things. Nice looking spray rig.

I have read this whole thread and thought I might chime in with my "un-expert" advice.

Several years ago my BIL (now ex) had a lawn spray business and he pretty much taught me the basics of lawn care chemistry. There are 3 main chemicals when dealing with lawn herbacides:

1 Atrazine (known my many brand names) is a pre-ermerge. This is what will prevent seeds (of any kind) from germinating. You want to apply this late in the fall to prevent any weed seed that has accumulated from the summers weed growth. You can also apply in the spring for the same effect. You don't want to spray this if you intend on seeding or overseeding in the near future for obvious reasons.

2 2-4D amine (also known by many brands) is a broadleaf control. This stuff will kill ANY plant other than grass. There are about a zillion different strains of grass, and this stuff won't affect any of them. You will want to apply this as soon as your weeds start to grow in the spring. A mid summer application can help knock down your weeds if you did not get them all with the spring spray.

3. MSMA (also known by many brands) is a grass control. It is basically the opposite of the 24D. I will not affect broadleaf plants unless it is sprayed too heavy. It is the hardest of the three to get right though, application rates are very tricky. Too much and you will kill ALL grasses. Not enough and you don't kill any. It is used mainly for bermuda grass yards since bermuda is one of the toughest grasses (and considered a weed by many). It is good for nutgrass (sedge), Dallas grass, crabgrass and a myriad of spotty weed grasses. It is normally sprayed in the heat of the summer in a two part application. When all the grasses have begun to grow vigorously, two applications about 2 weeks apart will "stress" all but the hardiest (read bermuda, tiff etc).

I actually learned years ago, that an occasional "random" spraying of MSMA will slow down a healthy bermuda stand so you don't have to mow as often (yes, I am lazy, plus I'd rather be boating in the summer than mowing).

Of course the above information is only MY observation and a registered herbivore (or whatever they call a grassologist) can tell you more.