Gotta split my B3200 to replace a $7 seal, great....

[Verticaltrx]

Parked my B3200 in the shop last night to preform the 400hr maintenance on it today. Came out today to a puddle of hydraulic fluid under the tractor. It seems that grass/hay wrapped around the drive shaft from the clutch to the HST and took out the seal (at the clutch housing end.) The only reason this happened is that the roll pin used to hold the shaft on the clutch output is about 1/4" too long leaving a little stub to catch things as it goes around. Well, it must have caught a little hay as I was raking yesterday and wrapped it around there.

Anyways, I'm going to have to replace that seal and the only way I can figure is to split the tractor to get the drive shaft out. I tried driving the roll pins out on each end and compressing the shaft on the splines, but there isn't enough movement to get it free. So now I guess I get to split an almost new tractor with only 400hrs on it.

Anyone split a B-series before? Based on what the WSM shows it looks like a huge job. I've split larger Ag tractors before, but this thing has so many lines, linkages, body panels, frame work, loader frame etc that must be removed it's crazy. I guess I'll just have to dive in and do it, but not looking forward to it.

I'll try to post some pics along the way. I'll also be triming the offending roll pin flush with the shaft so this won't happen again. My guess is the roll pin is like that on most B-series, so anyone who operates in tall grass or hay should probably take a look at that. I know I'll also check our B7610 when I get a chance and make sure this doesn't happen to it as well. Any advice or input would be welcome. :confused2:

 

[Don87]

Parked my B3200 in the shop last night to preform the 400hr maintenance on it today. Came out today to a puddle of hydraulic fluid under the tractor. It seems that grass/hay wrapped around the drive shaft from the clutch to the HST and took out the seal (at the clutch housing end.) The only reason this happened is that the roll pin used to hold the shaft on the clutch output is about 1/4" too long leaving a little stub to catch things as it goes around. Well, it must have caught a little hay as I was raking yesterday and wrapped it around there.

Anyways, I'm going to have to replace that seal and the only way I can figure is to split the tractor to get the drive shaft out. I tried driving the roll pins out on each end and compressing the shaft on the splines, but there isn't enough movement to get it free. So now I guess I get to split an almost new tractor with only 400hrs on it.

Anyone split a B-series before? Based on what the WSM shows it looks like a huge job. I've split larger Ag tractors before, but this thing has so many lines, linkages, body panels, frame work, loader frame etc that must be removed it's crazy. I guess I'll just have to dive in and do it, but not looking forward to it.

I'll try to post some pics along the way. I'll also be triming the offending roll pin flush with the shaft so this won't happen again. My guess is the roll pin is like that on most B-series, so anyone who operates in tall grass or hay should probably take a look at that. I know I'll also check our B7610 when I get a chance and make sure this doesn't happen to it as well. Any advice or input would be welcome. :confused2:

I don't have access to the WSM you are talking about.......but that aside..........if all ya gotta do is take that roll pin out to access the seal...........I'll be darned if I would split the machine.

Cut the roll pin off flush, get a flat bottom punch the proper size for the roll pin, along with the BFH and get the pin out.

Sometimes a little heat with a torch, going through the hole in the pin will make it come out also.

 

[Verticaltrx]

I don't have access to the WSM you are talking about.......but that aside..........if all ya gotta do is take that roll pin out to access the seal...........I'll be darned if I would split the machine.

Cut the roll pin off flush, get a flat bottom punch the proper size for the roll pin, along with the BFH and get the pin out.

Sometimes a little heat with a torch, going through the hole in the pin will make it come out also.

Nope, both roll pins are out. I actually had to drill a small hole in the rear part of the frame to access the rear one. Problem is the transmission and engine are physically too close to allow the shaft to come out without sliding one forward. Imagine a PTO shaft that didn't have any slip in it, the only way to unhook it would be to remove the implement from the tractor.

 

[Don87]

Nope, both roll pins are out. I actually had to drill a small hole in the rear part of the frame to access the rear one. Problem is the transmission and engine are physically too close to allow the shaft to come out without sliding one forward. Imagine a PTO shaft that didn't have any slip in it, the only way to unhook it would be to remove the implement from the tractor.

Oh ok........now I understand..........kinda like the BX series with the fan for the rear-end.

Can you pull the motor mount bolts, and shift the engine forwards a little?

 

[Don87]

I would protect the radiator(take the fan off if necessary, and if possible), remove the motor mount bolts, and slide the engine forwards.

I think thats going to be the procedure for you anyway, but maybe you can get by 'without' completely pulling the engine a setting it on the floor.

 

[5030]

I did the same thing to my pickup truck's pinion seal driving across a hayfield with the gooseneck to pick up rounds. Not as bad as splitting a tractor but a PITA just the same. Now, I pull the trailer in with the tractor instead of the truck.

I looked at the fancy 3 point trailer movers and just welded a big ball on the top of my rearmount bale spear. Lots cheaper, does the same thing.

I set the landing gear on the trailer to clear the ball in the pickup and use the 3 point lift to lift the trailer and landing gear when moving in the field. Saves cranking.

Grass hay and bailer twine are bad on seals.

 

[Verticaltrx]

I'm really surprised this hasn't happened until now. This is the 2nd year I've been using it to rake hay with, guess I've just been lucky. I'm also very surprised it didn't happen in all the bush hogging I've done. I've mowed probably 100ac over the two years I've had it.


Another thought occurred to me last night, instead of splitting the tractor at the clutch housing, I'm going to see what it would entail to split it where the end of the frame section meets the HST. If feasible it would require removing the operators platform, the HST linkage, hydraulic lines, etc but would still be less than splitting it at the front. I might even get by without removing the loader brackets if that is possible.

As to just moving the engine forward a little, I'd have to look at things a little closer, but I don't think it'd be possible. I think this is constructed differently than a BX, the engine is somewhat of a structural member like on a larger tractor. It still has frame plates on the outside of the engine, but when you unbolt the engine there would be nothing to keep everything together.

 

[zoltanthegypsy]

Another mighty tractor felled by a lowly blade of grass. Been there, done that.

I feel your pain,
Z.

 

[kuboman]

How about cutting the shaft and then get one made up with a longer slip joint so it then could be pulled off. I'll bet the cost to get a shaft made is cheaper than the cost to split the tractor.:thumbsup:

 

[Verticaltrx]

How about cutting the shaft and then get one made up with a longer slip joint so it then could be pulled off. I'll bet the cost to get a shaft made is cheaper than the cost to split the tractor.:thumbsup:

Problem is the current shaft doesn't have any slip, the only movement is the small amount you can slide the CV joints on the shaft once the roll pins are removed. I'm not sure I want to rig anything up that's not factory considering this shaft spins at engine RPM and it turning all the time. I'm afraid that even a tiny amount of play in such a shaft will cause vibration.

 

[Don87]

How about cutting the shaft and then get one made up with a longer slip joint so it then could be pulled off. I'll bet the cost to get a shaft made is cheaper than the cost to split the tractor.:thumbsup:

Actually, you wouldn't need a shaft, just a collar to go over the driveshaft where it was cut..........then each side drilled for a rollpin.

 

[kuboman]

Actually, you wouldn't need a shaft, just a collar to go over the driveshaft where it was cut..........then each side drilled for a rollpin.

Yep that would work even better. There has to be a better way then to split the tractor just to get a drive shaft off that should come off anyway. I wish some 'expert' could explain why it was done this way.:confused2:

 

[Verticaltrx]

I wish some 'expert' could explain why it was done this way.:confused2:

Me too, but I bet this never happens to 99% of the B-series tractors, so in their mind it's a non-issue.

I'm going to pressure wash the tractor in the am, drop the loader and get to work. I think I've devised a plan to 'split' the tractor without completely tearing it apart. Once the loader brackets are off, a few lines, etc I think I can unbolt the clutch housing from the rear frame and scoot it apart an inch or so without completely tearing it down. We'll see....

 

[cal1]

I'm new to the tractor world BX24). I've heard this term "splitting the tractor" What exactly do you mean? Is it disconnecting the engine from the transmission?

I've got the infamous broken HST fan and getting ready to move the engine forward so I can get the hst drive shaft off.

Cal

 

[Verticaltrx]

Is it disconnecting the engine from the transmission?
Cal

Exactly.



Anyways, I got the new seal in today. It was quite a job, and I still have to reassemble the tractor. Total time to split the tractor took 3hrs, it then took about 3 minutes to replace the seal, lol.

First I dropped the loader frame, lots of bolts but pretty straight forward. Lowered it down on the floor jack, it actually wasn't as heavy as I thought it'd be. Next took off all the sheet metal, fuel tank, wiring harness and steering wheel. Then came a multitude of hydraulic lines, some more wiring, and the steering drag link. The whole front 4wd drive line also had to be removed. I then realized I had to remove the steering box to get at the bolts to remove the rear frame section, so it had to come off as well. Blocked up the rear half of the tractor on some wood cribbing, then placed the floor jack under the rear of the engine portion. Unbolted the six bolts and 4 nuts/studs that held the two halves together, slowly rolled the front forward and then all the sudden I had a pair of two-wheeled tractors, lol.

Attached are a few pics of the splitting, once I get the rest uploaded I'll post some pics of the offending seal and drive shaft fix.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Once I had it apart I drilled a tiny hole in the seal body, threaded a screw in it and pulled it out. Sure enough there was some hay wrapped around the inside of the seal, hence the leak. Cleaned everything up real well, inspected the shaft and seal bore. A little light grease on the inside of the seal, and a very light coat of permatex 'super 300' on the outside of the seal, then carefully drove it in flush. Attached are some pics of the offending seal, and the location of the drive shaft in the rear section of frame.

Next was fixing the drive shaft so it this problem wouldn't happen again. The pics below show the original setup with the too long roll pin which caught the hay. Next pic shows the shaft with the roll pin cut off and ground flush. I did this on both ends, although the end at the HST is very unlikely to ever get anything into it.

 

[Johndeere3720]

Sure looks like a project. Glad you are getting everything sorted out and everything is running smoothly.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Slid the drive shaft back into place, cleaned up all the mating surfaces, and put the two halves of the tractor back together. I wasn't the easiest thing to do as 4 hydraulic lines, 4 studs, and the drive shaft all had to line up as it went back together. A little fiddling, some prying, etc and I had it all lined up. Put in a few of the bolts and that is where it is so far. I still have to put everything else back together, but at least the main fix is done. Probably will take another 3-4hrs to get everything else back together as I like to clean everything up and torque everything to spec as I go. Might get a chance to work on it tomorrow or monday, I'll give an update once it's back up and running (hopefully without to many leaks, lol)

Here's a pic of it as it sits now:

 

[Verticaltrx]

Sure looks like a project. Glad you are getting everything sorted out and everything is running smoothly.

Thanks, it was a fairly large job, but when you just start tearing it down one part at a time it's fairly straight forward.

 

[Don87]

Darn shame you had to split it just for that seal. But glad to hear everything is working out so far.