Grapple Grapple and stump bucket recommendations for a Ford 4600 W/ 735 loader

[Andy4600]

Hi all,

I need to clean up several acres (20+) of 3 year old cutover. Regrowth is minimal and most stumps are showing some rot. I am considering getting a W.R. Long adaptor plate to convert my 735 loader to the Universal attachment system, and then pick up a couple of "useful" attachments. Tractor is a Ford 4600, which is 52 HP PTO, and about 60 HP engine.

First, I was considering getting some kind of stump bucket, something similar to W.R. Long's Tree Spade model TS, as shown here Tree Spade.

Would something like this put too much strain on the FEL? Would the TSL model be better than the TS for my tractor?

Second, do you have any recommendations for an appropriate Grapple for this tractor/loader combination. I don't want anything too big...nothing over 60". Not sure if a root rake grapple grapple, such as this: RBG would be better, or something like the Everything attachment Wicked grapples, with a more L shaped bottom would be better. Any suggestions?

 

[Andy4600]

By the way, I have looked at a lot of Grapple threads, but didn't find much of anything for an old tractor and old FEL.

 

[ddbackhoe]

By the way, I have looked at a lot of Grapple threads, but didn't find much of anything for an old tractor and old FEL.

Maybe everyone besides you and me have tractor money to burn? 4WD is a nice thing to have and multiple hyd. outlets, higher hyd. flow, etc....Yours may be just fine for what you're doing. Adding this kind of stuff is just a tad trickier.
By universal attachment system, I'm guessing you mean the skid-steer style stuff?
There is a difference in grapples. One is a flat bottom (bucket) and the other is a c-face (root rake). Either one is nice, between my brother and I we have both. The flat bottom is, IMO, better at moving large amounts of debris (less trips) but the c style will pick up and move 1300 pound hay bales. The c style is better at raking roots from the ground. The grapple can be run from a new hydraulic valve, a third function kit (curl or lift circuit) or long hoses from a rear remote.

The adapter could be had from a salvage yard. I found one and have been cutting, grinding and making it fit. Titan distributors has some too. http://www.titandistributorsinc.com/default/titan-attachments/quick-attach.html

 

[Andy4600]

Maybe everyone besides you and me have tractor money to burn? 4WD is a nice thing to have and multiple hyd. outlets, higher hyd. flow, etc....Yours may be just fine for what you're doing. Adding this kind of stuff is just a tad trickier.
By universal attachment system, I'm guessing you mean the skid-steer style stuff?
There is a difference in grapples. One is a flat bottom (bucket) and the other is a c-face (root rake). Either one is nice, between my brother and I we have both. The flat bottom is, IMO, better at moving large amounts of debris (less trips) but the c style will pick up and move 1300 pound hay bales. The c style is better at raking roots from the ground. The grapple can be run from a new hydraulic valve, a third function kit (curl or lift circuit) or long hoses from a rear remote.

The adapter could be had from a salvage yard. I found one and have been cutting, grinding and making it fit. Titan distributors has some too. http://www.titandistributorsinc.com/default/titan-attachments/quick-attach.html

Hydraulic wise, my FEL has all the flow I would need. It is an external pump and tank, with lots of umph. Pump is driven by a shaft driven from the front of the motor.

By universal attachment, yes I mean the Skidsteer Quick Attach. Actually, my FEL has some sort of quick attach system on it now, but it looks like it is something homemade, and not fully compatible with the SSQA system.

 

[farm boy00]

Not saying anything but if you did get a root grapple could you make a attachment that would slide on and make a platform out to become a regular grapple

 

[ovrszd]

I built and added a Grapple to a Bobcat LowPro 60" bucket. I like it as mentioned above because I can carry small debris. I've moved a LOT of dirt with it as well. The bucket is "toothed" so I can use it to scrape up brush and debris into a pile, then pick it up with the Grapple. A Grapple will make a lazy man out of ya. I highly recommend it.

I built a tree spade. I rarely use it. Built it out of a 30" long piece of 24" 1/2" walled pipe. Cut the pipe square off on one end. Cut at a 45 degree angle on the other end to create a spade shape. I thought it would be handy for removing small shrubs/stumps. And it was handy until I built a tree/post puller. Now anything that's too big for me to pull with the puller is usually too big also to be dug out with the tree spade.

So, guess what I'm saying is, definitely get a Grapple of some sort. Then second attachment should be a tree/post puller. Then you'll totally become lazy. But you'll get a lot of work done!!!

 

[930ck]

I built and added a Grapple to a Bobcat LowPro 60" bucket. I like it as mentioned above because I can carry small debris. I've moved a LOT of dirt with it as well. The bucket is "toothed" so I can use it to scrape up brush and debris into a pile, then pick it up with the Grapple. A Grapple will make a lazy man out of ya. I highly recommend it.

I built a tree spade. I rarely use it. Built it out of a 30" long piece of 24" 1/2" walled pipe. Cut the pipe square off on one end. Cut at a 45 degree angle on the other end to create a spade shape. I thought it would be handy for removing small shrubs/stumps. And it was handy until I built a tree/post puller. Now anything that's too big for me to pull with the puller is usually too big also to be dug out with the tree spade.

So, guess what I'm saying is, definitely get a Grapple of some sort. Then second attachment should be a tree/post puller. Then you'll totally become lazy. But you'll get a lot of work done!!!

<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=418053"/><img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=418054"/><img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=418055"/>

<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=418056"/><img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=418057"/><img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=418058"/>

Could you tell a little more about your tree puller. Was asking about tree puller on a different thread but saw this one. What type and size of trees is it capable of, thanks

 

[RichardGD]

Since you're in VA, you may want to take a drive down to Denton, NC to my favorite implement manufacturer to pick up a grapple. I have never seen any better prices. This is the Grapple I have.

Skid Steer Extreme Root Grapple

 

[Deerherd]

Hi all,

I need to clean up several acres (20+) of 3 year old cutover. Regrowth is minimal and most stumps are showing some rot. I am considering getting a W.R. Long adaptor plate to convert my 735 loader to the Universal attachment system, and then pick up a couple of "useful" attachments. Tractor is a Ford 4600, which is 52 HP PTO, and about 60 HP engine.

First, I was considering getting some kind of stump bucket, something similar to W.R. Long's Tree Spade model TS, as shown here Tree Spade.

Would something like this put too much strain on the FEL? Would the TSL model be better than the TS for my tractor?

Second, do you have any recommendations for an appropriate Grapple for this tractor/loader combination. I don't want anything too big...nothing over 60". Not sure if a root rake grapple grapple, such as this: RBG would be better, or something like the Everything attachment Wicked grapples, with a more L shaped bottom would be better. Any suggestions?

I have that RBG WR Long grapple in the dual lid version and like it a lot. It is a heavy duty grapple so make sure you have enough FEL lift to make it a viable option.

I also have a Titan stump bucket that works pretty well. If you search it you can find a video I did digging out a stump. Works better since I added a front camera and I can see the front of the bucket. It might be perfectly suited for the size trees you are wanting to remove.

 

[Andy4600]

I have that RBG WR Long grapple in the dual lid version and like it a lot. It is a heavy duty grapple so make sure you have enough FEL lift to make it a viable option.

I also have a Titan stump bucket that works pretty well. If you search it you can find a video I did digging out a stump. Works better since I added a front camera and I can see the front of the bucket. It might be perfectly suited for the size trees you are wanting to remove.

View attachment 418109

View attachment 418111

Deerherd, I found the video and that was great. What HP is your tractor? It looks about the same size as mine, just a lot newer and a 4x4. Have you had any issues at all with the Titan stump bucket? I read somewhere that the Titan products were made in China with low quality steel. I'm not sure of the truth in that, and thought I'd ask. Most of the stumps I am looking at are in the 10 to 14 inch range, with a few bigger. Mix of hardwood (oak, poplar, hickory) and pine. They have rotted back some, or I wouldn't even consider a FEL to try and get them out.

 

[ddbackhoe]

Have you considered a stump grapple bucket? Our flat bucket is 54" and the c style is 72". I don't find one to be more or less useful than the other. They were made by Markham Welding (used to be on TBN).
New Stump Grapple Bucket Skid Steer Loader Tractor Attachment John Deere Holland | eBay

 

[Andy4600]

Have you considered a stump grapple bucket? Our flat bucket is 54" and the c style is 72". I don't find one to be more or less useful than the other. They were made by Markham Welding (used to be on TBN).
New Stump Grapple Bucket Skid Steer Loader Tractor Attachment John Deere Holland | eBay

I have considered them, but I am not sure how well they will work for all the cleanup duty I need to do...gathering all the loose limbs and sticks laying around, and moving the slash piles the loggers left to a better location so I can burn them. That is why I was looking at both a grapple and a stump bucket. I figure I can pop the stumps out, then come back later with the grapple and knock the dirt off them and bring them to the burn pile, or some out of the way location. Visibility also looks to be very poor on the stump grapple bucket.

 

[Deerherd]

Deerherd, I found the video and that was great. What HP is your tractor? It looks about the same size as mine, just a lot newer and a 4x4. Have you had any issues at all with the Titan stump bucket? I read somewhere that the Titan products were made in China with low quality steel. I'm not sure of the truth in that, and thought I'd ask. Most of the stumps I am looking at are in the 10 to 14 inch range, with a few bigger. Mix of hardwood (oak, poplar, hickory) and pine. They have rotted back some, or I wouldn't even consider a FEL to try and get them out.

My tractor is 88 hp and has 3500 lb lift on the FEL. I have had zero problems with my Titan bucket. It locks up tight on the SSQA and has replaceable teeth and I haven't bent or broken anything, yet. I'm no steel expert but it seems to be of good construction and the welds look fine but I have no idea on the country of origin.

Putting a camera on the front of the tractor speeds up the stump removal exponentially, that's for sure.

 

[ovrszd]

Could you tell a little more about your tree puller. Was asking about tree puller on a different thread but saw this one. What type and size of trees is it capable of, thanks

I've not measured the opening of the jaws so can't specifically state what size tree it will grasp. With that said, it will grasp trees too large for the tractor to pull them. I've used it quite a bit on my Brother's T300 Bobcat CTL. I can dislodge Cedar trees in the 8" diameter range with a little rocking back and forth.

Pulling trees is a vague topic to discuss. Different varieties of trees have different root systems. Some pull easy, some pull hard. So it's hard to answer that. I'll say anything 3" and under can easily be pulled. Time of year and soil moisture also play a big role. Best time of year is Spring and early Summer while the soil is still loose from freezing and damp.

A local welding shop builds pullers and sells them for $1250. Built very similar to mine. If you build your own you must brace the fixed arm and the swing arm. You'll see varieties that are not braced and use a short pin to swing on. They won't last.

You'll also see varieties of design. Some with both arms swinging. Some that simply "clamp" the tree between two pads. Some that are offset. Some that are centered. I like one swinging arm and centered as much as possible. Centered makes it easier to guide onto a tree. One swinging arm makes it more durable and simpler to build.

I can't remember if I did a thread on my build. I'll dig around and see if I can find one.

 

[Andy4600]

My tractor is 88 hp and has 3500 lb lift on the FEL. I have had zero problems with my Titan bucket. It locks up tight on the SSQA and has replaceable teeth and I haven't bent or broken anything, yet. I'm no steel expert but it seems to be of good construction and the welds look fine but I have no idea on the country of origin.

Putting a camera on the front of the tractor speeds up the stump removal exponentially, that's for sure.

That is a lot bigger HP wise than my tractor, but I think I should be ok. I read on another post that the lift capacity for my loader is 3050 lbs, breakout is 4360 lbs. I try to stay less than 2000# because it is old, and I have already had some frame cracks re-welded.

What type of camera did you use and where did you mount it?

 

[Deerherd]

That is a lot bigger HP wise than my tractor, but I think I should be ok. I read on another post that the lift capacity for my loader is 3050 lbs, breakout is 4360 lbs. I try to stay less than 2000# because it is old, and I have already had some frame cracks re-welded.

What type of camera did you use and where did you mount it?

I bought an AgCam, mounted one camera on the rear and one on the brush guard. Cameras are high quality and rugged, monitor is so so but resolution for both is average at best. I still haven't been able to dial in the color yet. Price was high ($1600 retail) and I think there are much better options for a lot less money. Search out backup cameras. Good luck!

 

[930ck]

I've not measured the opening of the jaws so can't specifically state what size tree it will grasp. With that said, it will grasp trees too large for the tractor to pull them. I've used it quite a bit on my Brother's T300 Bobcat CTL. I can dislodge Cedar trees in the 8" diameter range with a little rocking back and forth.

Pulling trees is a vague topic to discuss. Different varieties of trees have different root systems. Some pull easy, some pull hard. So it's hard to answer that. I'll say anything 3" and under can easily be pulled. Time of year and soil moisture also play a big role. Best time of year is Spring and early Summer while the soil is still loose from freezing and damp.

A local welding shop builds pullers and sells them for $1250. Built very similar to mine. If you build your own you must brace the fixed arm and the swing arm. You'll see varieties that are not braced and use a short pin to swing on. They won't last.

You'll also see varieties of design. Some with both arms swinging. Some that simply "clamp" the tree between two pads. Some that are offset. Some that are centered. I like one swinging arm and centered as much as possible. Centered makes it easier to guide onto a tree. One swinging arm makes it more durable and simpler to build.

I can't remember if I did a thread on my build. I'll dig around and see if I can find one.

Thanks for the response and the comments on the different types of puller. The trees that need pulled are less than 3" and don't plan on using it on anything but my 5740 Kubota.
Do you have an issue with the puller cutting small trees off when squeezing?
The one you built looks good and stout, did you build it for much less than you could buy one that was comparable?

 

[ovrszd]

Thanks for the response and the comments on the different types of puller. The trees that need pulled are less than 3" and don't plan on using it on anything but my 5740 Kubota.
Do you have an issue with the puller cutting small trees off when squeezing?
The one you built looks good and stout, did you build it for much less than you could buy one that was comparable?

A puller similar to mine will stand all the stress your 5740 will put on it.

The last thing I welded on mine was the teeth. I made them from one piece of 1/2" thick flatbar wide enough to span the gap between the arms. Welded the plate on. Then cut the Z pattern with a cutting torch. So the edges aren't sharpened. They rarely cut trees in two. And you'll also learn finesse when applying grip pressure. I've pulled a lot of steel fence posts. You really gotta learn a "soft" bite when doing that so you don't distort the posts.

Most of my materials I had laying around. If I'd bought all new, including the hydraulics I would have spent $500. So less than 1/2 price of buying one. I enjoy fabricating so I don't figure my time as worth anything.

With all that said, a neighbor asked me what I'd charge to build him one with all new material and I told him $200 less than a boughten one of the same strength. He thought I was too high. He bought one that isn't braced for $1200. Second day he used it he destroyed the swinging arm hinge. It now sits in the weeds. :confused3:

 

[Andy4600]

That puller you built is a nice piece of machinery, but will not work for my applications. All my stumps are cut too low to the ground to even get a puller on.

 

[930ck]

A puller similar to mine will stand all the stress your 5740 will put on it.

The last thing I welded on mine was the teeth. I made them from one piece of 1/2" thick flatbar wide enough to span the gap between the arms. Welded the plate on. Then cut the Z pattern with a cutting torch. So the edges aren't sharpened. They rarely cut trees in two. And you'll also learn finesse when applying grip pressure. I've pulled a lot of steel fence posts. You really gotta learn a "soft" bite when doing that so you don't distort the posts.

Most of my materials I had laying around. If I'd bought all new, including the hydraulics I would have spent $500. So less than 1/2 price of buying one. I enjoy fabricating so I don't figure my time as worth anything.

With all that said, a neighbor asked me what I'd charge to build him one with all new material and I told him $200 less than a boughten one of the same strength. He thought I was too high. He bought one that isn't braced for $1200. Second day he used it he destroyed the swinging arm hinge. It now sits in the weeds. :confused3:

Thanks for answering my questions on the tree puller and what it cost to build. Like the idea on torching the cutter plate last. May have to start rounding up parts to make my own. Looks like 4x6 tubing for the back and 4x4 for the arms.