Gravel driveway grading

[joshuabardwell]

It looks like I am going to buy a tractor soon. I have been holding off for months, telling myself I should spend that money on something else, or that I don't really need one, and I keep reading this forum and shopping web sites and watching videos and I think the only way I'll get anything done ever again is to just scratch that itch. So...

One of the projects I hope to get done is to fix up my gravel driveway. It has a section that slopes downhill quite steeply, and is prone to washing out. It looks to me like one of the problems with it is that the low point is basically right over where a tire runs instead of off to the edge where a ditch should be. As tempted as I am to just dive in and start digging, my girlfriend is sure I'm going to destroy the driveway because I don't know what I'm doing. She may be right.

Can anybody point me to tips or resources for doing this kind of work? I think I'll likely be using a box blade and/or the FEL. I've done some watching of the Everything Attachments videos on YouTube, and it looks like the basic technique is to set the side links so the implement has a slight tilt to it, and then start ripping, but I'm positive there's more to it than that.

 

[Wnc3]

Consider adding more gravel to the low spot and spreading with the box blade.
Or dragging the loose gravel to the low spot. I would avoid trying to dig too much or you could create a bigger problem than you are solving.
But since you will be on a new tractor, you will probably over do it and you GF will get to say "I told you ..."

 

[joshuabardwell]

Consider adding more gravel to the low spot and spreading with the box blade. Or dragging the loose gravel to the low spot.

I appreciate the advice. The problem that I think needs solving is that the driveway is basically lower than the ground to either side of it. It seems to my uneducated mind like the right thing to do is slope it to the outside so that water runs off to that side, but that would require bringing one side down by several inches at least, since currently it slopes the exact wrong way. I say, "wrong way," because the driveway is a loop, and so if water is directed to the inside, it will have to cross the driveway again at the bottom of the loop.

Last fall, I paid to have a man with a skid-steer and some experience help with repairs after the driveway became nearly impassable due to ruts. He put everything back into shape and took a stab at improving drainage, but I can see in this spot at least that the water is still running in its old ruts, and I'm concerned that just pulling loose gravel back up won't actually solve the problem. Then again, if I'm going to own a tractor, maybe that's not such a big deal, since I can just keep fixing it. Hey! How about that!

I would avoid trying to dig too much or you could create a bigger problem than you are solving. But since you will be on a new tractor, you will probably over do it and you GF will get to say "I told you ..."

Yes. That is exactly what she is afraid of. I have looked into how gravel driveways are constructed, and frankly I'm not sure how ever they are built on a steep grade without them constantly washing out. Anyway, if my understanding of the construction is right, underneath the crusher run, there should be layers of larger gravel as a foundation--which is why I probably can't just start digging and radically change the grade of the driveway--right?

Thanks again.

 

[Wnc3]

It is really hard to give much more advice without seeing it.
Are the ruts at the bottom of the slope where water is standing or flowing across? If so, maybe a small culvert is in order. I am always in favor of another truck load of gravel than disturbing a solid base.
Others here will soon chime in....

 

[joshuabardwell]

It is really hard to give much more advice without seeing it.
Are the ruts at the bottom of the slope where water is standing or flowing across? If so, maybe a small culvert is in order. I am always in favor of another truck load of gravel than disturbing a solid base.
Others here will soon chime in....

I think you're right that it's hard to give too much advice without seeing it. I could provide pictures, but even that really won't tell the tale. But since you asked, the ruts run parallel to the driveway, down the sloped part and out the bottom of the driveway. Basically, water is running down where tire wear has created a low spot, all the way to the end of the driveway. The gravel washes out the bottom of the driveway and into the road, and eventually huge ruts appear.

I tend to agree that disturbing the foundation is probably too much. If one was to go that route, I think one would probably be looking at tearing it up entirely and starting from scratch--at least in the problematic section. If I do get another load put on top, what's to stop the same problem happening again? Or is this just a fact of life with a gravel driveway on a slope?

When I had the fellow with the skid-steer help me do repairs, he had me put down Portland cement, he flattened the surface with his bucket, then we sprayed water on it and pulled a layer of crusher run over that. Since then, I have read that it's not a good idea to put cement in a gravel driveway--although this repair seems to be holding up good so far. Any thoughts on that approach? I wonder whether it would just cause the water to seek another path around the cement section.

 

[DKCDKC]

I have a mile-long gravel drive with two steep hill sections. My answer has been to put in water breaks that direct runoff to the side. And I accept that, after a few really heavy rains, I'll still need to go and regrade a few ruts to keep peace in the family.

It's hard for guys with a tractor and simple attachments to really get a gravel road to retain a crest - higher in the middle than at the sides. I don't try. In flat areas the water goes away without problem. On slopes, the crest would have to be pretty high to handle a real volume of runoff. A water break catches most of the water and diverts it to a side ditch. Heavy rains can still rut, and the ditches need attention sometimes too.

But I have learned to use a box blade and regular blade to keep my road in good shape for years, with a minimum need to add additional and expensive gravel. I add gravel in places about every 5 6o 6 years. I never use cement on the road because it creates large plates of rock that catch your equipment and prevent you from getting a smooth result.

I do make the water breaks gradual - not like speed bumps. They're easier to shape, last longer, and are easier on vehicles - and human behinds.

 

[joshuabardwell]

It's hard for guys with a tractor and simple attachments to really get a gravel road to retain a crest - higher in the middle than at the sides. I don't try. In flat areas the water goes away without problem. On slopes, the crest would have to be pretty high to handle a real volume of runoff.

That's exactly the conclusion I've come to. There's no point in cresting this road because that would direct half the water to the inside of the loop, forcing it to cross the driveway again at the bottom. Also, the slope of the road itself is so steep that the crest can't really divert the water to the side very effectively. At least, that's how it seems to me.

I'd love to hear more about your technique for creating the water breaks.

 

[DKCDKC]

The important thing in water breaks is to choose your location and made it gradual. On a long steep slope I walked it carefully and picked a spot where the slope eased for a few feet and there was a good ditch below. I removed the gravel to the extent it could from the spot and a 25 foot section above it. Then I put the teeth down a touch on the box blade and pulled dirt and foundation stone from the uphill section and made a mound at the chosen site. I kept at it - getting off the tractor to check until I had a mound that was about 4 inches higher than the road just before it. I then withdrew the teeth and shaped a bit so the new break angled just a touch toward the side I wanted. Then I moved all the gravel I'd removed back using the box blade. It took all afternoon, as I recall, but the break has lasted four years already.

Some of my breaks I put in before the road was graveled back 17 years ago.

A gravel road can be a pain because you have to tend it. But a paved road is not an option when I have a mile length to deal with. Anyway, I have friends who have paved their shorter drives and found, unless they tend to the ditches, even a paved road will be undercut and damaged.

I have fixed a wet area that tended to pothole with ground asphalt. It works well if you lay it early in the summer and roll it heavily to keep it smooth. I am tempted to try it on a slope, but fear having an almost paved drive would make it difficult to get out in an icy situation. We have ice a couple times each winter - up to a few inches - and only gravel gives me traction to get out. The highway guys around here go both ways on the question, so I may just try it to find out.

Good luck with your drive.

 

[Jim in ICT]

My advice is first, lose the girlfriend, then do whatever the heck you decide to do with the driveway!

 

[joshuabardwell]

My advice is first, lose the girlfriend, then do whatever the heck you decide to do with the driveway!

Let me just be clear: she's a keeper! She fully supports my prerogative to mess up the driveway if I want to. She's just going to laugh and say I told you so if I do.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I have a slightly steep section of hill where I built a gravel path for golf cart traffic between my place and brother in laws that I cant keep from washing away the gravel and creating a trench so I plan to fix that with a catch basinn at the top of the hill to direct all the run off into and then an underground drain pipe down the hill to where I can discharge it in a more level area. Probably have to put some kind of turn up at the end and a rock pit to absorb the force of the flow to keep from having a crawfish pit at the end but at least with it flat, no more gully washed in the hill that has to be patched after every large rain.
I am thinking that at the bottom of the drain I can direct the water up into a pit of large gravel or stone maybe contained in an old plastic drum that will diffuse the water enough to let it flow out into the flat area without washing away anything.

 

[DKCDKC]

Sounds like a lot of work. I imagine it will do the trick, but you may want to try ditching if you haven't already... Works pretty good here in the Virginia mountains. For a slight slope in a warm climate, I would also consider ground asphalt. It may cost no more - or less - than regular stone and really resist rutting. The secret is to lay it down now like regular stone, then roll it good. You Arkansas summer will make it into a rough pavement that should last.

My other trick here is water breaks directing the water to the side. I use ditches to carry the water off. I also put larger stones in the ditches at intervals to prevent the water from gaining the speed to do damage.

 

[Ron JD670]

I appreciate the advice. The problem that I think needs solving is that the driveway is basically lower than the ground to either side of it. It seems to my uneducated mind like the right thing to do is slope it to the outside so that water runs off to that side, but that would require bringing one side down by several inches at least, since currently it slopes the exact wrong way. I say, "wrong way," because the driveway is a loop, and so if water is directed to the inside, it will have to cross the driveway again at the bottom of the loop. .

You mentioned the drive being a loop so you should find that while straight across it slopes inside , but if you measure from the inside to a point a few feet or a yard lower on the outside you will find it is lower at that angle. This is the angle you want to put your cross bars in or maybe a bit more aggressive. I built some soft cross bars using fresh gravel. I have to rebuild them periodically, but it keeps the neighbors from complaining about speed bumps. I ordered a 10yd load of gravel and had it dumped in a pile so I could use it as I experimented while I fixed up my road. Something I could not have done if I did not have the tractor.

My ditch on one side had filled in and was higher than the road because they had built a berm which fell into the ditch over time. To reestablish the ditch I had pull down the berm then use the box blade to bring the side down to road level then to slope it to form a ditch. I must say be careful working a slope and don't drive diagonal across the ditch (unless you can lock all four wheels). Depending on the length of the ditch, slope, road you may need to run the ditch away from the road after a distance to dump water and start a new ditch. I'm working up a plan for my drive now to deal with the occasional down pour.

Before going at it with the rippers see what you can do with the box blade first. You may be surprised how much you can move (and how quickly you can make a mess). Once you rip it you have to repack it.


I know you Check out You Tube but Search under
"Using a subcompact tractor to ______"
The following one is good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoc2Mf5yRZI&sns=em


Also there are some very good threads on here on TBN see if you can find these two.
Beginners guide to using a box blade
Rear Blade: How to grade a driveway

Good luck and best wishes.

 

[crazyal]

My advise, unless you have really major repair work forget the box blade. For the last few years I've been borrowing one who good results but this year I broke down and bought a grading scraper and it just does a nicer job with less user input. Get yourself one with ripping teeth if you have rocks or a drive that packs down real hard. They are much easier to use and the novice would have a much harder time making the drive worse.

I have steep sections I maintain, some of which are roads built by others that are nothing more than dirt that's been leveled. By adjusting the length of one of the lower links I can set an angle on it so I can make the center of the drive higher to help shed water off to the sides. It usually takes me a few passes to bring the gravel that the rain migrated to the bottom of the steep sections back up the hill. The angled blades on the GS help move the gravel from the edges to the center of the drive.

Does your driveway have fabric under it? Do you live in an area where you get a fair amount of frost? If you have fabric then you need to make sure there's enough gravel on top of it. Otherwise the attachment may pull it up, that will make your driveway worse. The ripping teeth will really damage it. Frost can push rocks to the surface, the rippers will pull them out and make for a nicer drive.

 

[adjusterr]

If you want an inexpensive tool to grade driveways, remove grass and under brush, prepare soil etc, Google Ratchet Rake and watch the videos. I have had one for over two years and it works great. My driveway is 2/10 mile and I can level the washouts in less than 30 min. As needed, I add stone but I use "Crusher run" which contains stone of all sizes, including stone dust. Once you tailgate and level the stone using the Ratchet Rake, the first rain washes the stone dust down into the spaces between larger rocks where it compacts. I would recommend you not dig up the driveway and destroy the hard base already in place. The Ratchet Rake loosens the top two inches and distributes the loosened stones into the existing ruts. Good luck.

 

[Bartcephus]

Ok.... First the decision should be on which tractor to get... not on whether to get one or not. Tractors are like pocket knives, everyone should have at least one! At one time or another you will need a pocket knife even if it is just to clean the speck of whatever it is that gets under your fingernails. Same with a tractor, you will need it so you can get that dirt under your nails and use the pocket knife.

Second. Get the tractor and fix the driveway... your way... if it doesn't work just keep trying and trying again and again. Ain't one cowboy that never fell off a horse. Just climb up in that saddle and go at it again. It ain't rocket science, its dirt and rocks, and no you don't need a degree in geology to fix a driveway.

Third. (Is there really a need for a third?) It has been my experience that common sense is not that common. So let me recommend that you use your un-common sense and be careful and aware of your surroundings as you gain experience. You and your GF will love driving around on your Big [Green, Blue, Red or whatever color] Tractor you get.


Best Regards,

Bart

 

[Gary Fowler]

Sounds like a lot of work. I imagine it will do the trick, but you may want to try ditching if you haven't already... Works pretty good here in the Virginia mountains. For a slight slope in a warm climate, I would also consider ground asphalt. It may cost no more - or less - than regular stone and really resist rutting. The secret is to lay it down now like regular stone, then roll it good. You Arkansas summer will make it into a rough pavement that should last.

My other trick here is water breaks directing the water to the side. I use ditches to carry the water off. I also put larger stones in the ditches at intervals to prevent the water from gaining the speed to do damage.

The problem with the dirt where I live is that it washes gullies and just keeps on washing. I would need a truck load of gravel to line a ditch and then have to cross it with my lawnmower. I think with the catch basin with grating on top and the underground pipe to carry the water to the bottom of the hill, I can make my problem a one time fix and forget it. I think a catch basin on top to gather it and 90 ell on the pipe at the bottome, then a drum in the ground on top of the 90 ell filled with varying size rocks to diffuse the water thrust to minimal so no more washing at the bottom will work in my case. Might work in the OP's case also.