HELP ME !!! EPA issue in FLORIDA !

[AndyTractor]

Dear Sirs,

I am under big pressure at present.

I think maybe the Florida importer took the EPA issue as my fault. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

The 12 units of Jinma are of 22HP(16.5KW) with engine date 1999 !!! I had sent him FAX & decsribed this before.

What can I do to help him to settle the trouble at my side in China?

What kind of documents & paperworks I should offer to him?

Others Jinma dealers are all good luck.
Why only we are bad luck ??!! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Thanks !

I need your everyone's kind help.

Best Regards

 

[JohnS]

Andy,

From your first post, I assumed you were a US buyer awaiting your tractor. I do see that you said "exporter" in the follow-up post, but assumed miss-typed. You are probably the first chinese exporter that has come to this board looking for help. Glad to see that you are trying to get it straightened out. BTW, you english is very good.

What the importer needs to do, is file TPEM with the epa, and not try to use '99 engine year exemption. It is very hard to argue that the engines were not stockpiled when here it is 4-5 years later and you still have '99 engines! I have seen engines with '99 labels, and highly suspect that they are newer than that. Can I prove it? No, but the factory is not that good at rust prevention on the rest of the tractor /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I know that some of the major exporters from China know about TPEM and have the appropriate engine labels. The factory should certainly know about this, as well. The TPEM will allow your importer to bring-in 200 units, per model, per year.

 

[AndyTractor]

Thanks ! JohnS !
Good Morning!!!
(While here in China is 8:30PM in the night!)

In fact I joined this Forum in Y2002. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I posted some ads here to sell my Chinese tractors.
And Mohammod, the Webmaster gave me a warn letter and ask me do not post the ads here. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I visted your JohnS's Jinma Website many many times & got many useful informaiton there.
(But now I can not visit & open your website. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif)

<font color="red"> TPEM stands for what?
Where can the importer get it?
</font>
He is a little angry these days.
He said I did not give him enough help.
I am really innocent. I am not familiar with American Regulations & Rules & Brokers.
I 100% want to help him to get it staightened out.
But I do not know where to start from.

Of course, our 12 Jinma tractors are the same appropriate engine labels as those Jinma of FarmPro.

Nothing is different!
The only difference is that maybe FarmPro has a better broker.

<font color="blue"> Who can help me to find a better Broker in USA? </font> /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[SPIKER]

AhdyT:

I agree with JohnS (though I wouldn't ever argue with his knolage either /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

You over in china probably can't do a LOT to pressure the EPA here in USA. I would ask a few of the Exporters in china, first if any of them are having any of the similar problems. then try and get a copy of the EPA forms which showed the Certerfication being DONE on one or more engines and having them passed the US EPA requirements. I think there SHOULD have been work and fileing done on this YEARS ago by the engine manufacture over in china. no ONE importer stateside has the ability or backing to do such a thing. it HAD to be done by a few BIG TRACTOR companies a long time ago. yes I do know that "janging tractor co" (spelling?) makes more engines than most other plants and possably more than many other plants combined.

I'm thinking that is maybe the only way to get it done, otherwise you may end up having to buy them back & send them elsewhere? I'm not sure what the legal ramifications of exporation to here by you are but it may end up that he can cause you problems with ALL the endeviors you try and do here by flagging anything comming from you're company to USA even if it is toasters or electronics... The globe belives the USA is a free persons paradice but in fact we have so many laws, rules, regulations and pure tax problems that we no longer are FREE but live under the thumb of BIG governemt and are rutinely sent to prision or fines heavily for some pretty small things. Not even talking about how they seem to only target the People who can PAY them and let the total low life criminals out to continue doing real crimes so they can say WE (the government) need even MORE laws to protect the citizens from each other....

Sorry I got off on a rant here. The EPA DOES and CAN force the dealer/importer to HOLD onto the tractors unless they are SENT BACK to avoid the issuese that the EPA is pushing... THIS can cause even MORE problems down the road if it is more of an "Across the board" type thing and they may be just starting to get the ball rolling at stopping the import of the susposidly EXEMPT tractors comming in. I know you won't be on to get this untill tomarrow you're time but please try and help him out as best as you can not as much as just because but more because if the EPA does get to push these tractors in FL out of the states then the rest of the 49 may be doing the same... (I would have thought that CALIFORNIA would have been the first state to STOP them comming in...) Go figure as FL needs all the equipment it can get it's hands on now after 3+ major hurricains in a month of time.

Mark m /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[PitbullMidwest]

Andy,
First off you need to have a conference call between your importer, the EPA offical he is dealing with and yourself. Until YOU know the specific regulations being questioned all this speculation is a waste of time.

The EPA agent can help explain the problem and possible resolutions. Your desire to help your customer is admirable but in the end the IMPORTER is responsible for meeting all applicable laws and regulations. The TPEM is probably a good route since there are only 12 units, your importer can obtain it from the EPA, if he hasn't made the EPA agents mad, they might even help him fill it out.

I deal with the EPA as part of my job, all of the agents I've ever met want to be a resourse to help you, unless you piss them off.

 

[AndyTractor]

Thanks for everyone's help & reply.

1. This morning I left a voice message & sent e-mail to Mr.David Alexander of the EPA office for help;

2. TPEM (Transition Program for Equipment Manufacturers), Right? Where & how to get it? From the EPA office?

3. I hope someone can help me to contact my importer in Florida to find the solutions: <font color="blue">SCOTT (Cell: 904-769-5791 / Tel: 904-964-4238 ) </font>

<font color="purple">Thanks for your call !
And thanks for your help !!!
</font>
<font color="red"> Thanks for TractorByNet !!!
A Great Tractor Family make me fell warm !!!
A good website make me not work alone !!! </font>

 

[bluechip]

Andy,
TPEM stands for "Transition Program for Equipment Manufacturers" Your customer in the USA can get the information from www.epa.gov and do a search for 40 CFR 89.102 there are several pages outlining the program which was intended to provide time to meet the new EPA requirements on off road diesel mainly for small manufacturers (importers are considered manufacturers by EPA for this program). THe big snag is that only one engine manufacturer can be used by the importer for each HP class, so for example, an importer cannot legally import both 28HP JInma and 35HP Jinma because those engines come from two different factories and the EPA HP bracket covers 25 up to but not including 50HP.
There is a limit on engines imported per year and the program expires this year for 50 HP and over tractors, next year is the last year for 25-50HP and one year after that for up to but less than 25HP.

The TPEM is not intended for single unit self import and if 1999 engines are not to be allowed, than it would make very good sense for anyone wanting a Jinma to buy one from a dealer who has one in stock. This is not the first time I have heard of this difficulty regarding 1999 engines.

For other interested parties that may be reading this I'll sum it up like this: It seems we can import NO blue tractors, NO out of date engines, no current engines that do not meet Tier II unless exempted by a TPEM and labled accordingly. IMHO If you want one tractor, it is not worth the risk and hassle to self import anymore.

My best advise is do not pay in advance for a tractor that is not already in the USA! there have been some "importers" particularly listing on ebay at very low prices requiring full payment prior to shipping...from China. Can you imagine if the 12 tractors on this order had been presold, money sent, profit spent, how would an "importer" who didn't have enoungh money to buy the tractors before he sold them, come up with the money to refund to his customer in the event he couldn't get them in?

 

[JohnS]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( In fact, the tractors had been received in my importer's hand in this July. (So they can not charge him warehouse fees.)
But he told me the Customs & the EPA office still had the right to deal these tractors.
)</font>

Sounds like the tractors are in the importers hands and not being held. Just to let you know, TPEM (explained by others) does require well documented paperwork, which they can demand to see at any time.

BTW, my website is still there: http://www.johnstractor.com/ But, it hasn't been updated in quite awhile. If you can't access it, there is probably a filter on your side.

 

[AndyTractor]

<font color="blue"> SCOTT (Cell: 904-769-5791 / Tel: 904-964-4238 )</font> also imported some other Chinese brand tractors from me, but they are 25HP & 30HP and had no EPA problem.

The 12 Jinma tractors are of 22HP !!

Scott is also a dealer/importer of Japanese 2nd-hand Yanmar tractors.

If some of those Japanese tractors are of 22HP, are there any EPA conflicts to our Jinma 22HP tractors??

 

[bluechip]

The problem is date of manufacture of tractor vs date of engine manufacture. Used tractors made before 1999 (up to 25 HP and 1998 if 25-50HP would not have to meet EPA.
It is not a question of it being 22HP. In the past EPA did not worry about 1999 engine manufacture so this is new position they have taken recently.

I think many people expected it because it seemed China never ran out of 1999 engines.

John S is right, careful records of each engine imported to be sure total is not exceeded must be maintained and reported to EPA at the end of the program.

It is not too difficult to set up TPEM but does limit engine choices once election is made. For example if 22HP has Yangdong engine, all engines under 25HP imported must be Yangdong. If 30 HP engine is Jaingdong (sp?) than all 25-50HP engines must be Jaingdong etc. NO mixing brands. So because JM254 is just under 25HP you could have it and JM304 and JM354, but not both 4 cylinder and 3 cylinder.

I hope the Chinese engine companies will produce Tier II engines soon or they will loose all of USA market.