Help rebuilding a hay wagon

[sjbrunk0]

Guys,

I need some help. I just bought an old MF7 Massey-Furguson hay wagon frame for $200. Seemed like a pretty good deal... I would like to build the bed for it anyway.

I'm really looking forward to being able to pull this behind my baler so I don't have to pick the bales up off the ground.

I'm trying to decide what the bed structure should look like. I'm thinking 2x4 construction (just like a house wall) for the bed itself, with water-resistant subfloor OSB, and then two 6x6's under that running longways.

It looks like I'll have to space it up from the axles more than a 6x6 so the front tires will clear (see pic).

It looks like some of those steel pieces on top of the axles have been added, am thinking I may remove some or all of those. Two of those brackets (the ones that look like original equipment) are in bad shape having been bent all out of whack, broken, welded and broken again.

Anybody have any pointers on building a hay wagon bed, or maybe a picture or two of how this has been done?

Thanks in advance,
Scott

 

[Robert_in_NY]

4x6 or 6x6 will work for your main beams. I used 4x4 for my cross members and if I recall I used 2x8 for the deck. I wouldn't use OSB for the deck but thats because my wagons sit outside year round.

If you set your cross members right you don't have to shim the main beams up. You set one just in front of the tire and one just behind so the tire has room without rubbing.

 

[franklinute]

I built a wagon bed like you are talking about several years ago. I uses 2 6x6x16' PT as the main runners. Used 1 6x6x12' cut it into 3 pieces to brace between the runners. Then layed 2x8x8' as the bed floor after that put 2x4x16' along the edge and screwed everything together well. I usually build a steel frame, weld, drill, bolt and screw everything together. This wagon has held up very well, has been much lower cost to build and went together in an afternoon. One extra thing I do on a wagon is to u-bolt the main frame of the bed to the frame of the wagon.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Only bolt one side of each axle to the runner. Do the opposite corners and chain the unbolted side so the wagon can flex. It keeps the wagon from tearing itself apart under load if you hit a chuck hole or cross a ditch.

 

[Egon]

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...150&ty=126&page=1&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:0


A picture of the sub frame for the type of wagon you are building.

Note: the above link will lead you back to a thread and pictures posted on TBN.

 

[sjbrunk0]

A picture of the sub frame for the type of wagon you are building.

Hey, that looks really great! It looks like you used 2x10's for the runners and notched them to take the 2x4 crossmembers, is that right?

In the end were you satisfied that the runners still had enough strength in them with those notches?

What is your spacing on the crossmembers?

Thanks,
Scott

 

[tessiers]

Most wagons I am accustomed to use a 4x10 main timber on each side, bolted with 1 bolt per corner (all 4 corners) with 8' decking planks run cross ways for decking and a 2x4 rail laid flat on top of each side. We always used a 2x6 on each side of the main timbers at the back running vertical for a few feet with cross planking to give a backboard to stack against. That design held until the use of kickers which require racks all the way around the wagon. An 8x16 wagon can easily stack 150 bales.

 

[sjbrunk0]

Ok, thanks Tessiers.
So the cross planks must be 2x lumber to be able to span that far.
I like your design, sounds simple which I like.
Treated lumber I guess? I hate that stuff, it's awful bad about warping as it ages. I wish I knew a good local place to get rough sawn oak at a reasonable price, I'd use that. What did you use and were you happy with it?
Also interested to understand the backboard a little better. Do the long beams stick out the back past the deck for that to attach to? I wasn't planning for a back board but that seems to be pretty common so must be worthwhile.

 

[Egon]

Scot; I can't help with the details. It is a thread that I happened to find.

 

[sjbrunk0]

Ok, I misunderstood. Thanks anyway!

 

[Robert_in_NY]

You don't need the back rack but if you are stacking hay it does help as it gives you a solid wall to stack against. If you build the wagon without the back rack you can still stack the wagon with hay just fine but you have to make sure you tie the bales together properly and don't let the pile creep backwards while its being stacked. Drive the wagon careful and the load will stay just fine. The problem comes in when you have someone stacking that doesn't know what their doing and you have a big load of hay that isn't tied together and is very wobbly.

 

[aczlan]

When we built ours, we used gluelam beams with 4x4 posts on them and 5/4 decking on top of that.
Overkill, yes but we couldn't get anything heavier than a 4x6 in 4x conventional lumber and we weren't sure that a 4x6 would be strong enough to hold the weight of the bales

See: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/151176-haywagon-rebuild-thread.html for the build thread
I need to update that thread with the "after" pictures one of these days.

Aaron Z

 

[aczlan]

You don't need the back rack but if you are stacking hay it does help as it gives you a solid wall to stack against. If you build the wagon without the back rack you can still stack the wagon with hay just fine but you have to make sure you tie the bales together properly and don't let the pile creep backwards while its being stacked. Drive the wagon careful and the load will stay just fine. The problem comes in when you have someone stacking that doesn't know what their doing and you have a big load of hay that isn't tied together and is very wobbly.

I helped the neighbor finish their field the other week when their baler went down and we found that it is hard to slow a NH belt kicker enough for someone to stack in a non-basket wagon (especially when baling after dark). They had their load well stacked on their flat wagon, but it was MUCH easier to stack when we got out our basket wagon.

Aaron Z

 

[aczlan]

Ok, thanks Tessiers.
So the cross planks must be 2x lumber to be able to span that far.
I like your design, sounds simple which I like.
Treated lumber I guess? I hate that stuff, it's awful bad about warping as it ages. I wish I knew a good local place to get rough sawn oak at a reasonable price, I'd use that. What did you use and were you happy with it?
Also interested to understand the backboard a little better. Do the long beams stick out the back past the deck for that to attach to? I wasn't planning for a back board but that seems to be pretty common so must be worthwhile.

Looking at those pictures (from: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/151176-haywagon-rebuild-thread.html) it appears that they used a pair of 2x12 beams, then notched them for 2x4 crosspieces and put on 2x6 decking.

I have also seen where they put down tall beams, then lay 2x8s sideways across them and put a 2x4 or a piece of angle iron lengthways down the sides to tie the edges together.
Examples:
http://jk.webhost4life.com/jk/equipment-traders/forsale/050311haywagon.jpg
http://jk.webhost4life.com/jk/equipment-traders/forsale/042711hayrack.jpg
http://jk.webhost4life.com/jk/equipment-traders/forsale/052011rack.jpg


Aaron Z

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I helped the neighbor finish their field the other week when their baler went down and we found that it is hard to slow a NH belt kicker enough for someone to stack in a non-basket wagon (especially when baling after dark). They had their load well stacked on their flat wagon, but it was MUCH easier to stack when we got out our basket wagon.

Aaron Z

Remove the drive belt on the thrower and give the guy on the wagon a hay hook and just have him hook the bale as it falls out of the thrower. The plunger will push the bales up through but if you want the bales lighter you will want to remove a couple of the tension springs on top of the thrower that create the clamp effect. When I have had problems with my thrower in the past thats what I had to do to get the hay picked up while waiting for parts to arrive at the dealer.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

When we built ours, we used gluelam beams with 4x4 posts on them and 5/4 decking on top of that.
Overkill, yes but we couldn't get anything heavier than a 4x6 in 4x conventional lumber and we weren't sure that a 4x6 would be strong enough to hold the weight of the bales

See: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/151176-haywagon-rebuild-thread.html for the build thread
I need to update that thread with the "after" pictures one of these days.

Aaron Z

I had to repair a rotted main runner on one of my kicker wagons and it was a 4x8 which wasn't something easy to come by to match up so I built a new beam using standard 2x8's. I took three 18' 2x8's and stained all three individually first, then glued/screwed them together and before I slid it under the rack I bent up a metal cap to cover it and keep the water from sitting against the new beam which is what caused the other beam to rot. If I was building a new wagon from scratch I would strongly recommend bending a metal cap to sit on top the main runners as that is a great place for chaff to sit and hold moisture and even if there is no chaff its a good place for moisture to sit

 

[aczlan]

Remove the drive belt on the thrower and give the guy on the wagon a hay hook and just have him hook the bale as it falls out of the thrower. The plunger will push the bales up through but if you want the bales lighter you will want to remove a couple of the tension springs on top of the thrower that create the clamp effect. When I have had problems with my thrower in the past thats what I had to do to get the hay picked up while waiting for parts to arrive at the dealer.

We dont have springs to hold the top belt down, it is gravity only. I thought of pulling the belt, but we didn't start baling over there until 9:30PM and had to finish that night due to time constraints on their end, so I didn't want to mess with it.
We ran out of twine about midnight and called it night.

If I was building a new wagon from scratch I would strongly recommend bending a metal cap to sit on top the main runners as that is a great place for chaff to sit and hold moisture and even if there is no chaff its a good place for moisture to sit

That is what we did. I got some funny looks from my father-in-law and the guy I was building the wagon with, but figured that it made sense for the reasons you mentioned above.


Aaron Z

 

[Robert_in_NY]

We dont have springs to hold the top belt down, it is gravity only. I thought of pulling the belt, but we didn't start baling over there until 9:30PM and had to finish that night due to time constraints on their end, so I didn't want to mess with it.
We ran out of twine about midnight and called it night.


That is what we did. I got some funny looks from my father-in-law and the guy I was building the wagon with, but figured that it made sense for the reasons you mentioned above.


Aaron Z

How has the weather been where your at? Here in my part of WNY we finally have hay weather. I have 6000 bales promised to customers already and today I finally started baling without getting rained on and picked up 700 bales. I have a long way to go still but will be baling tomorrow and saturday as well. Need to start clicking customers off the list as I am getting tired of the phone calls asking about when I am baling their hay as its pouring rain every other day :confused2:

 

[aczlan]

How has the weather been where your at? Here in my part of WNY we finally have hay weather. I have 6000 bales promised to customers already and today I finally started baling without getting rained on and picked up 700 bales. I have a long way to go still but will be baling tomorrow and saturday as well. Need to start clicking customers off the list as I am getting tired of the phone calls asking about when I am baling their hay as its pouring rain every other day :confused2:

First cutting is in (6-700 small squares) is in the barn. ~100 bales for us, the rest to sell (200 spoken for).
Casualties included the elevator (motor died and the hitch area needs rebuilding), the neighbor's baler (them leaving it out uncovered all the time might have had something to do with that) and a tire on each of the neighbor's wagons.

Aaron Z

 

[sjbrunk0]

If I was building a new wagon from scratch I would strongly recommend bending a metal cap to sit on top the main runners as that is a great place for chaff to sit and hold moisture and even if there is no chaff its a good place for moisture to sit

That sounds like a great idea, and I would not have thought of that. Thanks!