BHD
Veteran Member
The relief valve could be damaged or not set correctly, the spring broken. or crap holding it open.
HELP weak pump or worn lift cylinder?
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Dave M7040
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The scanned pages are a big help but what would make them even more helpful would be photos of the same area of your tractor.
I believe the relief valve would be built into #13 the control valve which looks like it is inside the lifter casing and not accessible. Only the rod of the control valve sticks out is this correct?
Are there parts pages for the pump and hydraulic pipes which you could provide?
I see two tapered pipe plugs (#22 & #23) and I am thinking if these plugs seem close to where hydraulic lines connect, they could be a place or places where pressures could be checked.
I was very happy for you to see that your tractor's pto turns in the right direction which means your tractor is not Gray market but rather designed for North America. A big plus!!
Dave
Big line is low pressure "inlet" to the hyd pump, small line is high pressure "discharge from the pump.
Big line "green" connects to the trans housing towards rear of tractor, green circle opposite side is where hyd filter is located. Small line snakes its way to top of trans housing
red circle shows where high pressure connects "#27" on the page that shows "#13" control valve.Yellow shows 2 of the 3 plugs "#22" on the page that shows "29" lift cylinder assembly. I'm thinking that these plugs are just to block the flow passages that were drilled in the lift housing to get hyd fluid to the lift cyl. These "drilled holes" are did at the factory of course and should provide high pressure for a gauge and at the same time NOT dead head the hyd pump.
Blue shows the bolts "#34" that attach "#29" to the "#1" hyd lift housing.
Yes the control valve is inside the lift housing and the control valve lever sticks out the right side of the lift housing.
scan of hyd piping & part numbers
Attachments
Dave M7040
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itsmesrd
I searched on ebay for a new pump in case you needed one.
For some stupid reason, I have mentally switched to calling your tractor a S2000 when clearly on your profile and on the photo of the nane plate you sent, it is a D2000.
I guess I made the switch from reading the history of Mitsubishi, Satoh, Case etc. A Satoh destined for the USA market had an model identified starting with a S which has nothing to do with anything.
I contacted the ebay seller because they seem to an American company selling new and rebuilt pumps and they did the rebuilding themselves. I was thinking they might be a good place who might rebuild your pump.
The company is Abilene machine Sales
Their reply was just a general one which said email them: sales@abilenemachine.com
Or call them: 800-255-0337.
I am not suggesting you do that at this point in time but to just keep the info in case you arrive at a point where their services are needed.
I will now go back up the thread and read your recent post I just did not want to forget this info I got by email.
Dave M7040
I searched on ebay for a new pump in case you needed one.
For some stupid reason, I have mentally switched to calling your tractor a S2000 when clearly on your profile and on the photo of the nane plate you sent, it is a D2000.
I guess I made the switch from reading the history of Mitsubishi, Satoh, Case etc. A Satoh destined for the USA market had an model identified starting with a S which has nothing to do with anything.
I contacted the ebay seller because they seem to an American company selling new and rebuilt pumps and they did the rebuilding themselves. I was thinking they might be a good place who might rebuild your pump.
The company is Abilene machine Sales
Their reply was just a general one which said email them: sales@abilenemachine.com
Or call them: 800-255-0337.
I am not suggesting you do that at this point in time but to just keep the info in case you arrive at a point where their services are needed.
I will now go back up the thread and read your recent post I just did not want to forget this info I got by email.
Dave M7040
Dave M7040
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I think removing the tapered plugs and then probing with a thin wire would be helpful.
Two of them may be actually in the same oil passage. As you probe and look at the parts digram you may get a better sense of which plug or plugs are before the lifter valve and which are after.
Getting a pressure gauge and necessary fitting to attach where tapered plug was would be a good idea and I would do it before pulling off the lifter top.
The parts illustration show a number of small o rings between the lifter valve and the housing, between the cylinder and the housing. Any of these inexpensive seals could cause the problems you have.
This is a photo of a pressure gauge to test systems with quick couplers. It cost about $25.
My suggestion would be to use a quick coupler between your gauge and the tapered plug holes.
This coupler use would make certain you are not twisting on the gauge to install it, that it would always face where you could see it and lastly, plug the hole. If you plumbed the male end of the quick coupler into the tapered holes, you would not have anything sticking out very much.
Dave m7040
Two of them may be actually in the same oil passage. As you probe and look at the parts digram you may get a better sense of which plug or plugs are before the lifter valve and which are after.
Getting a pressure gauge and necessary fitting to attach where tapered plug was would be a good idea and I would do it before pulling off the lifter top.
The parts illustration show a number of small o rings between the lifter valve and the housing, between the cylinder and the housing. Any of these inexpensive seals could cause the problems you have.
This is a photo of a pressure gauge to test systems with quick couplers. It cost about $25.
My suggestion would be to use a quick coupler between your gauge and the tapered plug holes.
This coupler use would make certain you are not twisting on the gauge to install it, that it would always face where you could see it and lastly, plug the hole. If you plumbed the male end of the quick coupler into the tapered holes, you would not have anything sticking out very much.
Dave m7040
Finally got to the hyd. place and got gauge. 0-5000 PSI
This is the test Hydraulic Pressure Test - YouTube
This is the test Hydraulic Pressure Test - YouTube
Dave M7040
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Itsmesrd.
Very good video....
I want to go through it slowly tomorrow so i don't miss anything.
Did you remove and clean or replace the hydraulic filter. It would affect the speed of the lifting of the arms but not the fact that the pressures are low as I see them.
KAYABA is the manufacturer of your pump. I can find KAYABA hydraulic on google searches.
Another forum member who I asked for some help found a used pump on on ebay but it was sold.
The important info from ebay were 4 photos which I feel closely resembles your pump.
Do you think these pictures look like your pump?
They came from a Yanmar tractor.
In my mind I doubt the pump is the problem first because of the cost of replacing it. Getting a new pump and the system still operates the same way would make both of us feel sick.
I think it would be worthwhile for you to talk to your hydraulics people about doing a pressure and flow test on your pump in their shop..
The number 22 small seals inside the top cover give me a concern as one of them being broken would drain off the pump output and lower the 3 pt.
Consider which you want to tackle first. Pump check or seal check.
Dave M7040
Dave M7040
Very good video....
I want to go through it slowly tomorrow so i don't miss anything.
Did you remove and clean or replace the hydraulic filter. It would affect the speed of the lifting of the arms but not the fact that the pressures are low as I see them.
KAYABA is the manufacturer of your pump. I can find KAYABA hydraulic on google searches.
Another forum member who I asked for some help found a used pump on on ebay but it was sold.
The important info from ebay were 4 photos which I feel closely resembles your pump.
Do you think these pictures look like your pump?
They came from a Yanmar tractor.
In my mind I doubt the pump is the problem first because of the cost of replacing it. Getting a new pump and the system still operates the same way would make both of us feel sick.
I think it would be worthwhile for you to talk to your hydraulics people about doing a pressure and flow test on your pump in their shop..
The number 22 small seals inside the top cover give me a concern as one of them being broken would drain off the pump output and lower the 3 pt.
Consider which you want to tackle first. Pump check or seal check.
Dave M7040
Dave M7040
Morning Dave M7040,
Thanks for the help with this so far, the pictures are great!!!
The only thing that I'm not sure of is the drive shaft I haven't pulled the pump but am seriously thinking of it. I was gifted a few garden tools and really do need to get them moved before disabling the tractor. I haven't seen any numbers on my pump either, but all of the other pics match.
When you say "number 22 small seals" are they 22 mm or is that a part number?
The guys at the hyd shop told me that o-rings and seal shouldn't be a problem. They seem well informed and had a shop that has been in business for many years.
Do you think that a seal broken or just plain worn out, in the control valve or the lift cyl. could have the same effect? Maybe this afternoon I'll pull the pump to at least see what the shaft looks like. I can't imagine it being different given all the other similarities. While I have it apart I can at lest finally get rid of my moisture problems. I'll also pull the hyd filter again to be sure it's not clogged.
Hope I didn't come across too cheesy in the video, I have to do that sort of thing for my own benefit also. It would have taken me many hours to try and write that amount if info down. I sometimes have my son record me so I'm trying to teach him how to do some of this stuff too. When I do it myself I get him to watch them.
I'll post pics of my pump as well as the other things that I'm sure are going to come up. I need to cal those guys at the hydraulic shop...
Thanks for the help with this so far, the pictures are great!!!
The only thing that I'm not sure of is the drive shaft I haven't pulled the pump but am seriously thinking of it. I was gifted a few garden tools and really do need to get them moved before disabling the tractor. I haven't seen any numbers on my pump either, but all of the other pics match.
When you say "number 22 small seals" are they 22 mm or is that a part number?
The guys at the hyd shop told me that o-rings and seal shouldn't be a problem. They seem well informed and had a shop that has been in business for many years.
Do you think that a seal broken or just plain worn out, in the control valve or the lift cyl. could have the same effect? Maybe this afternoon I'll pull the pump to at least see what the shaft looks like. I can't imagine it being different given all the other similarities. While I have it apart I can at lest finally get rid of my moisture problems. I'll also pull the hyd filter again to be sure it's not clogged.
Hope I didn't come across too cheesy in the video, I have to do that sort of thing for my own benefit also. It would have taken me many hours to try and write that amount if info down. I sometimes have my son record me so I'm trying to teach him how to do some of this stuff too. When I do it myself I get him to watch them.
I'll post pics of my pump as well as the other things that I'm sure are going to come up. I need to cal those guys at the hydraulic shop...
Dave M7040
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Here is the link to the pump on ebay where the bidding is over.
Yanmar Hydraulic Oil Pressure Pump for Yanmar YM155, YM155D | eBay
The pump was listed as being for a Yanmar YM155 or YM155D.
It is too son in this trouble shooting process to be pulling the pump if it is only for you to look at. Clearly it is rotating.
The seals , number 22, are unusual seals in the way they are used so your hydraulics guy may not understand this application. On the other hand they may mean matching any O ring should not be a problem.
The #22 is the part illustration number on your parts page where the lift cylinder and control valve are shown. These seals connect the lift cylinder and control valve to those hydraulic passages you screwed your gauge into. I would not think any large O ring say on the lift cylinder piston would break. The control valve internals will not have any seals just parts that fit extremely close together to prevent leaking.
I have yet to go back and watch your video again but compared to many on youtube is was excellent.
Dave M7040
Dave M7040
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You are absolutely correct, I am mixed up!!
These pictures have the seals I am talking about circled in red.
The hydraulic pump and lines are really self purging.
You could remove the smaller of the two lines at the rear lifter unit and run it into a bucket.
Put some rags over the top of the bucket so you don't get splashed.
If you timed and measured how much oil went into the bucket you would have a pretty good idea of the flow rate of the pump.
You would also see when clean new fluid is now going into the bucket to end your purge of the hydraulic system.
Dave M7040
Dave M7040
My plan is to pull the pump, suction and pressure lines, hyd filter, and the hyd lift housing. The parts #12-#17 are to prevent the hyd lines from chaffing on other stuff, and are not in the right spot. Taking the hyds apart will also give me a chance to measure tolerances checking for ware on the control valve and its associated parts, bypass... While the pump is being tested I will be able to get new o-rings all around. Where the control lever exits the lift housing there is a small leak, just a seep really but why not fix it while it's apart? If I have too I'll rig up a suction line for my shop vac and suck any remaining wet fluid from the trans housing. I'll also have a chance to wash down all areas that were contaminated by watery oil. Home De Pot sells WD40 in a gallon can. WD40 stands for water displacement formula 40. May get a can of that to bathe the interior of the housing with.
On a side note the flow control knob has been screwed full in for who knows how long, until I got it freed up the other day. Do you think that that could have cause some of the problems that I'm having?
SRD
My plan is to pull the pump, suction and pressure lines, hyd filter, and the hyd lift housing. The parts #12-#17 are to prevent the hyd lines from chaffing on other stuff, and are not in the right spot. Taking the hyds apart will also give me a chance to measure tolerances checking for ware on the control valve and its associated parts, bypass... While the pump is being tested I will be able to get new o-rings all around. Where the control lever exits the lift housing there is a small leak, just a seep really but why not fix it while it's apart? If I have too I'll rig up a suction line for my shop vac and suck any remaining wet fluid from the trans housing. I'll also have a chance to wash down all areas that were contaminated by watery oil. Home De Pot sells WD40 in a gallon can. WD40 stands for water displacement formula 40. May get a can of that to bathe the interior of the housing with.
On a side note the flow control knob has been screwed full in for who knows how long, until I got it freed up the other day. Do you think that that could have cause some of the problems that I'm having?
SRD
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Dave M7040
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The big thing in control valve deterioration is scratches lengthwise along the spool. Either on the spool or the bore where the spool moves.
Trying to figure out if there is excess clearance between spool and its housing requires special metrology equipment few outside government and large companies can afford.
Fundamentals of Metrology | NIST
The flow control know is only controlling how fast an implement goes down.
Dave M7040
Dave M7040
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No it would not have.
The flow control knob is only controlling how fast an implement goes down.
It has nothing to do with your problems.
Dave M7040
