Home Made Tree Planter

[Aging TOO Fast]

I recommend you forget the post hole digger and get a tree hole digger. It looks exactly like a post hole digger, but trees go into the hole instead of posts.



Bruce

WOW, I think I have seen a bunch of those tree hole diggers at the farm store, they have extras in-stock when they are on sale.....you can even get different sized tree hole auger bits, for different sized root balls!

 

[Mark Page]

Nice welding!!

 

[284 International]

Wouldn't that cause severe compaction around the hole?...

Also - it seems like blind luck if the tractor tire circumference matches the spacing this customer wants... All I can imagine is jacking up the tractor at the start of each row to rotate its tire to the right point.

I agree with all of your concerns, and concluded everything you did. I certainly don't know. The one I saw was on an old fruit orchard that also was a Christmas tree farm. I don't know if they let the ends run wild by whatever amount, or if they jacked the machine up, or how it worked. I don't know what trees they planted, either.

Were I to try it, I would plan on spending a few moments on each hole with a shovel, to break down the edges of the compacted soil. Since the trees will (presumably) be placed by hand and backfilled, it may
not be bad. I really don't know, but it seems most people have gone to backhoes and/or augers for planting. There must be a reason, and it probably involves minimizing labor expense/time and improving profit margins... Were this device somehow remarkably improved over those other methods, I expect it would be in wide use.

 

[woodlandfarms]

So maybe we are mis communicating Loca...

Here is a video that I found of BARE ROOT planting in the US (and overseas). It uses a trencher, followed by wheels pushing the dirt back in. It requires 4 to 6 laborers but as this is a method you seem interested in...

Planting a new Apple Orchard - YouTube

As for your note on how things are done overseas, As I have had the good fortune to do so many times, I have seen both grapes and apples being planted with post hole diggers in France and Germany, so I have no doubt the method is universal in acceptance. Those trees, though were what we term in te US as rootballed, meaning they had dirt around them. Bare root planting is different. It is much harder to do as one person (you need to cover the roots immediately and they tend to not want to stand on there own) but if you have a crew you can get a lot of trees down quickly.

Here is some more info that was easily accessed via the web

Orchard Equipment
Mechanical Tree Planter for Orchards and Nurseries
Establishing the High Density Supported Apple Orchard - Part 4: Planting the High Density Orchard the Tree

I wish you all the best in your endeavor

 

[Aging TOO Fast]

Great job BHD - just the sort of thing I'm thinking of...

Did you have any issues when using it / anything you would do different?

I just think you might consider the additional cost, developement, (strong)possible failure of the machine plus the cost of (materials, time , ect.).
If you were doing 10's of thousands of trees; the designing, prototyping and refinement would possibly make sense. for what it would cost for a machine to do what you would like for the number of trees (500), you could just hire laborers. to plant the trees and be money ahead and have less headaches I believe. I vote for the TREE -HOLE digger.... and a few extra people to help.

remember money-in _ minus expenses _ equals profit. Usually best (LOWEST) bid wins the job. You might try to get the costs of a machine ( that may or may-not work) added on top of or part of your bid.... But if someone bids cheaper .....YOU DON' T/ WON'T have to worry about HOW you would do the job! Someone else (that kept the job simple) will be doing it.

GOOD LUCK!

 

[Localmotion]

Thanks everyone for all the great info / ideas. I do agree with california that the spades on the wheel idea could be a bit hit and miss, and ultimately take longer than using the excavator or auger.

Woodland Farms video shows just the sort of thing I'm thinking of... guess it is a difference in translation, as looking at that vid I'd say some of those roots were at least 20cm diameter, so not much larger than what I'm thinking.

Now for the post / tree auger debate.... :stirthepot:

I'm not disagreeing that post / tree borers are used in europe - but it is definately not common practice here on commercial farms. I have lived and worked in agriculture all my life, laterly here in Spain but also in the UK and France (where my best friend now farms) and personally have never seen a field planted using that method - although I conceed smaller farmers may well resort to that method on occasion.

It's pure maths to work out that the time taken with anything which has to stop to form each hole is longer than a constantly moving tractor, and given that agricultural incomes are increasingly under a lot of pressure and margins the tightest they've ever been - time & productivity is very much key, hence why farmers here prefer a constantly moving machine with minimal labour.

I have seen fields in the UK planted with christmas trees and more recently here in Spain with vines using an attachment like the one in your video - in both cases no additional labour was needed other than the driver and planter riding behind. As the Olive & Almond trees are not too large, I hope that at most I'll only need one person following - although I will also have a crew installing the irrigation, so guess they can help if needed.

As said in my OP - what I'm really wanting is ideas / suggestions on the best and cheapest way to build a planter. Ultimately if the cost is too high I will use our excavator, but I'm hoping this could be an opportunity to build a piece of kit that can be hired out onto future jobs as well.

So keep the ideas coming please ..... maybe someone will have a simple (but rapid) solution?

:thumbsup:

 

[Aging TOO Fast]

Thanks everyone for all the great info / ideas. I do agree with california that the spades on the wheel idea could be a bit hit and miss, and ultimately take longer than using the excavator or auger.

Woodland Farms video shows just the sort of thing I'm thinking of... guess it is a difference in translation, as looking at that vid I'd say some of those roots were at least 20cm diameter, so not much larger than what I'm thinking.

Now for the post / tree auger debate.... :stirthepot:

I'm not disagreeing that post / tree borers are used in europe - but it is definately not common practice here on commercial farms. I have lived and worked in agriculture all my life, laterly here in Spain but also in the UK and France (where my best friend now farms) and personally have never seen a field planted using that method - although I conceed smaller farmers may well resort to that method on occasion.

It's pure maths to work out that the time taken with anything which has to stop to form each hole is longer than a constantly moving tractor, and given that agricultural incomes are increasingly under a lot of pressure and margins the tightest they've ever been - time & productivity is very much key, hence why farmers here prefer a constantly moving machine with minimal labour.

I have seen fields in the UK planted with christmas trees and more recently here in Spain with vines using an attachment like the one in your video - in both cases no additional labour was needed other than the driver and planter riding behind. As the Olive & Almond trees are not too large, I hope that at most I'll only need one person following - although I will also have a crew installing the irrigation, so guess they can help if needed.

As said in my OP - what I'm really wanting is ideas / suggestions on the best and cheapest way to build a planter. Ultimately if the cost is too high I will use our excavator, but I'm hoping this could be an opportunity to build a piece of kit that can be hired out onto future jobs as well.

So keep the ideas coming please ..... maybe someone will have a simple (but rapid) solution?

:thumbsup:

Are the trees BARE ROOT CLUMP 30CM or are they BALLED ROOTS (with dirt)

I would think you need to mark where the trees need to go,to maintain
proper spacing, regardless of method of putting them in the ground?

The faster variation to an excavator would be a wide trencher, just churns
and clears the trench,
but if your trees are say 5 meters apart, THAT IS ALOT of extra (trench) digging/ filling-IN, just to operate CONTINUOUSLY, even if you created a drag to miss the trees and fill the trench, wouldn't you still need to create the wells around the base for water, or NOT??? are you going to lay irrigation at the same time? same trench?

 

[BHD]

these are not the best pictures much do to the grass that has grown around the planter, and the planter is laying at about 45 degree angle on it side that is down,

but I did get them taken

One can see how I made the arms and the adjustable aspect of the seat and wheels, sorry the side shields is not that clear it is basically the depth of the shank and open to about the wheels,

the colter would go in the yellow pipe on the front, the shank is adjustable up and down, and the tube that holds the shields is bolted to the shank

no to confuse one there are two spare tires laying on top of the unit on the down side, (the tray that I sued to hold the tree boxes,

 

[mjncad]

@OP. How many 30cm root ball trees can you even carry on the planter you envision? Not many I'll bet before it needs to be reloaded with more trees. I'm guessing you'll be lucky to build a platform capable of holding 4 - 6 trees tops. Plus I'd hate to be the guy riding on the planter having to huck a tree into a ditch from a moving tractor. I'd bet your pickup or farm truck can hold 20 or more trees to follow a PHD equipped tractor.

As I've said before, I hate post hole diggers; but I still think it's the best solution with a 45cm - 60cm tree auger for planting 500 trees. Drill a shallow hole (~30cm - 45cm), move to the next location, drill hole while your help follows planting trees. Repeat until done.

Anyway you do this job, it will be a large tedious task. I just think a tool designed for saplings is the wrong design for root ball trees.

 

[Localmotion]

Ahhh - you all got me stopping awake last night think about post augers :shocked:

The deal is that we already have the job - it is for a firm who we have a long term contract with. Never the less I always prepare a quotation in advance of works to ensure that we and our staff know the budget, and the firm is happy with what the final bill will be. I was therefore thinking on this occasion that while we may not make our normal profit, the job may justify investing in a cheap piece of equipment available for future use...

Now, while laying awake last night a simple fact stuck me that I had not not previously considered in my blinkered desire to build a tree planter - we would most likely use a post auger more often (fencing etc) than the home built tree planter that I've been yerning after...! :lightbulb:

So the next thing playing on my mind (while my wife was telling me to stop fidgeting and go to sleep) was how can I speed up the process using an auger? As I've already said, the process of setting out & marking the holes is something I really want to avoid - it seems an unneccesary waste of time given that I can drive a perfectly straight line (years of practice with the plough & drill).

Then it hit me.... I've already discussed the posibility of fitting a bout marker to a tree planter, buy hadn't even considered that the same could be done with an auger - Once the first row of holes is drilled, I could follow the bout mark for the next line, and so on. Spacing between the trees in the same line is easily achieved using the weight and rope method described by BHD in an earlier post.

I still maintain that the time taken to auger a hole will take longer than a tractor which is continuously moving, but if the time marking out has been reduced that is a result, and it will therefore still be quicker than using the excavator. I will use our staff following through laying the irrigation to plant the trees (no water rings necessary) - I had always intended that the planter would need to be regually restocked with trees, and so we would probably have a second tractor laying the irrigation with a front cargo box on to hold extra trees.

Of course doing it this way will defeat one of my "goals" - there is no way I am going to attempt to build an auger, so will have to lay out to buy one. But at least then I'll have it for future use.

All I have to do now is convince the wife (who's also my business partner) that it is worth the outlay...

So a BIG THANK YOU to everyone who kept ignoring my contempt for post hole augers!!!!!

All that said, if anyone has a better idea please do let us all know :thumbsup:

 

[Localmotion]

these are not the best pictures much do to the grass that has grown around the planter, and the planter is laying at about 45 degree angle on it side that is down,

but I did get them taken

One can see how I made the arms and the adjustable aspect of the seat and wheels, sorry the side shields is not that clear it is basically the depth of the shank and open to about the wheels,

the colter would go in the yellow pipe on the front, the shank is adjustable up and down, and the tube that holds the shields is bolted to the shank

no to confuse one there are two spare tires laying on top of the unit on the down side, (the tray that I sued to hold the tree boxes,

Thanks for that BHD - I really appreciate you going and taking some extra photos for me.

As said in my last post, I am now getting converted to the whole auger idea this time, but as a future project I may still try and make something like this - or rather pass the idea onto my friend Ramon to make for me, as his welding is far better than mine! I'm sure that once built we could generate lots of work for it planting vines for the farmers around here...

 

[Aging TOO Fast]

I'm not disagreeing that post / tree borers are used in europe - but it is definately not common practice here on commercial farms. I have lived and worked in agriculture all my life, laterly here in Spain but also in the UK and France (where my best friend now farms) and personally have never seen a field planted using that method - although I conceed smaller farmers may well resort to that method on occasion.

It's pure maths to work out that the time taken with anything which has to stop to form each hole is longer than a constantly moving tractor, and given that agricultural incomes are increasingly under a lot of pressure and margins the tightest they've ever been - time & productivity is very much key, hence why farmers here prefer a constantly moving machine with minimal labour.


:thumbsup:

Just because a pencil or pen is put on a piece of paper , moved continuously and never lifted, does not mean a picture can be drawn faster or better looking, than marking only where needed. If I scribble where I don't need ink or marking, it blurrs the drawing and makes a mess.

Maybe not a perfect example, but the point is, sometimes someone might need to seemingly (slow down)
to be More efficient and faster.
3PH hitch HOLE DIGGERS might be clunky... consider a hydraulic unit that could mount on a FEL, boom or quick attach or??? simple lever or joystick control- then you are digging in front of the tractor , following your line, hitting your marks, (rig up a MIRROR? to see hole locations from the seat -without a spotter) continuing to next, even could pull a trailer behind with the trees, to be set by a helper as you proceed to dig next hole.........



What you are looking for (to be quick) is a system or a methodology that runs efficiently, Not necessarily
drop a something in the ground and hit the throttle until you are at the end.....

 

[Localmotion]

Maybe not a perfect example, but the point is, sometimes someone might need to seemingly (slow down)
to be More efficient and faster.
3PH hitch HOLE DIGGERS might be clunky... consider a hydraulic unit that could mount on a FEL, boom or quick attach or??? simple lever or joystick control- then you are digging in front of the tractor , following your line, hitting your marks, (rig up a MIRROR? to see hole locations from the seat -without a spotter) continuing to next, even could pull a trailer behind with the trees, to be set by a helper as you proceed to dig next hole.........

Great ideas - and love the analogy :thumbsup:

 

[mwb]

I will probably get flamed for this or even banned but... you are 'only' planting 500 trees and you have to place them manually and backfill manually. For the amount of work involved why not hire some temporary labour to dig the holes? You can have your tractor bucket (now making my suggestion tractor related ) to collect excavated soil if you need to. I would guess a good worker with a round-nose shovel could dig at least fifteen an hour in sod (should be able to do more than that!); that's two days work for two guys (plus planting).

If you are doing this all the time then investing in equipment might be worth it.

 

[boggen]

PHD (post hole digger) with auger bit little bit bigger than hole you need. so if hole is a little bit off angle. things can be set straight. and back filled around.

get the optional "down force kit" for many PHDs. that is a hyd cylinder to help push auger into the ground. sod may be easy, but there is a chance you will hit hard ground some place.

you could do a "foam marker" get a cheap 12v spray tank, you could toss into the FEL of tractor. and then using some lumber and some straps to fasten lumber to FEL bucket. and then run a hose from tank in fel to driver seat, and cheap valve or modified spray gun. that has a hose that goes back to fel and down the board. to leave a "marker of foam" when ever you set PHD down, hit the foam marker. for a couple seconds to make foam drop for the next line of trees. the first line you make for trees will be critical in getting straight and spaced correctly. but *shrugs* and would most likely be a 2 person job. one on tractor. and a spotter. just to make sure auger bit is straight and double checking driver in keeping things straight.

get all holes dug, and if you see a hole off after doing the entire field. you can go back and mark it or dig it with a shovel to meet specs of x,y coordinates.

=================
once all holes are dug, drive the truck / trailer down in between the holes. setting the trees in holes. and back filling.

having bare roots, the PHD will act like a tiller, and chew up the dirt into little chunks, making it easier to sprinkle the dirt in and around roots. vs large chunks of dirt. and i would think make for easier slight compaction around each tree. other words think about how you want the dirt around each root bulb. do you want hard compact large chunks of dirt. or kinda of a fluffly dirt that soaks the water in?

i am a tad against excavator or backhoe. due to bucket, will result in large size dirt clods. and be a pain in rear to bust clods up, and back fill around trees. if you were removing stumps ya excavator or backhoe. but for planting. i don't know about that.

a tree spade could work. that you see many nursery trucks and you can get them as 3pt hitch. but i tend to see them for larger size trees that are not grown in pots. were they come out put tree spade down into the ground. and it pulls out a hole in the ground. and then they set the large size tree down into hole.

also planting that many trees, most likely means need to replant some of them. a PHD would come in hand for that.

honestly a PHD and doing fence lines, once ya get going goes pretty quick. trees are not like seed crops (corn, beans, etc...) were millions of seeds are put in.

=================
double check what type of harvesting equipment they use and how critical it is to be on X,Y grid. that may make a huge difference. it may mean difference of getting heavy duty string, and stakes to make a grid. vs rough placing things and marking as you go.

also double check "mower" they use. to figure out min spacing and max spacing that could be had.

=================
if ya go with the tree planter for small saplings that others have shown. you could possibly modify a potato hiller, or rather make that a disc. along with modify a potato plow / ripper. and modify it all together for something. if you want a wheel that marks distance between trees. instead of a marker on tractor tire.... and you use tires to bring dirt back around saplings and compact it some. find tires/rims that are perfect size in circumference. for 1, 2 or 3 revolutions of the tire. and just paint a mark on side of tire. to reset wheel. just lift up the 3pt hitch tree planter, spin wheel, set 3pt hitch back down. and take off down the next line. and for backup, just drag a chain or like further away and off to the side. to double check you did not miss count revolutions/mark on the tire. as they guy putting the trees down into the hole.

==================
other thing to think about, if irrigation lines will be installed or if, a water tank on trailer will be used.

if irrigation lines will be installed. i would imagine only so many trees can be water at one time. how and were would the irrigation lines be installed? will they be just tossed onto the ground for first couple years? and then rolled back up? or permanently installed and if permanently i would assume, wanting irrigation lines away from tree roots and down the center line between the lines of trees. and teeing off to each tree.

while it may be just your job to plant the trees. what is the overall plan/ goal to get things done?

 

[spo307]

If rocks are an issue use a backhoe, i plant BB trees with my backhoe, use bucket teeth to scape grass away in a 4' radius, load dirt into a 1200lb. Atv cart, i have trees i would like to translant but that would be a tree spade big $$

 

[Aging TOO Fast]

Great ideas - and love the analogy :thumbsup:

thanks, I think it's great we all can throw around thoughts and ideas; helping and being helped
by each other.

Keep us posted....

 

[kidr]

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/156961-po-boy-back-hoe.html?highlight=

This might be just what you need. The bucket didn't work out too well, so I made a scoop from a disc. Works great for planting.