How accurate is a property line survey?

[MikePA]

Oh, speaking of surveys being wrong. Have any of you ever seen one with antiquated old measurements? Cubits and such. Also things saying stuff like go dead North from the forked oak tree with a bullet hole in the left fork to the large moon shaped stone placed 12 inches NE of the burned our cedar tree. That's what we have to deal with on the old farm. There are steel post markers there now also but the deed was still worded just like original last time I saw it.
We had a 400 acre place in Pa that was the same way but had a very irregular property line so it was several pages of things I didn't understand.

Since one of my jobs when I worked for my FIL was gathering the deeds to do a survey, I saw all kinds of units of measurement, but never cubits.

When we ran into deeds like this, it was a warning sign of rough seas ahead. We always told the customer what we found and documented the decisions we made so they understood, particularly if we were told, or had reason to believe, a property line feud was a brewin'. When we saw certain other surveyors names mentioned, we were almost guaranteed the deed wouldn't close.

But we all need to keep in mind tractor888's original post. We are dealing with a subdivision, so I'd imagine the plot plan for the subdivision is relatively recent and accurate. It's hard to know for sure since he has not posted for 3 days.

 

[MikePA]

Yep, most western states are free range states...

Fascinating post. Thanks!

It also shows why people shouldn't ask for opinions about property line issues on a web site. Unless the person who responds lives in the same state, and maybe even the same county/township, their experience wont apply.

 

[Charlesaf3]

The laws in the free range states don't so much make sense as reflect the fact big ranchers had all the power when the laws were drafted... Goes back to the farmer/rancher fights of the late 19th century.

Speaking as a lawyer, legality is good and all, but you are better off resolving things without lawyers and courts if you can.

 

[tractor888]

I can't believe this. Even in a residential subdivision fences are optional and are put up for privacy only. some of our neighbors have no fence and don't have to go in halves. I'm not a rancher but I believe in Texas if I want to keep YOUR cows out of MY property...I have to put up a fence. Cows have rights you know!! I remember this because it's arse backwards.

Only case I've seen otherwise is the bordering fences to a street or the neighborhood boundary. Then in most cases the civic assoc or the neighborhood as a whole bears the cost. This of course would be in the deed restrictions.

I already got a fence and it's has been there over 30 years! The main issue here is somebody don't like my fence and trying to use a more recent survey (more or less accurate...) to force me to take down the existing fence. There was no doubt the fence was believe to be inside the property line on my property and it was surveyed 30 years ago althrough I'm unable to find the original stake.
His recent survey indicates my fence was 3 inches over on his side. The thickness of the fence and post is over 6 inches and it's not perfectly straight. Even with his survey, 75% of the fence is on my side. What I need is ammunition to show 3 inches is within the margin of error so there's no case for this idiot.

 

[Charlesaf3]

Tractor, you are trying to make a case. Fine tactics, but really lousy strategy. You seem bound and determined to have a lawsuit, but I really think only the lawyers will end up happy.

 

[tractor888]

Tractor, you are trying to make a case. Fine tactics, but really lousy strategy. You seem bound and determined to have a lawsuit, but I really think only the lawyers will end up happy.

I don't want a lawsuit but I'm expecting one unless he's bluffing.
Actually, it's this guy that was bound and determined to take down my fence. It doesn't take a genius to figure out his sole intend for having the survey was trying to show my fence was over on his side so he has the ammunition to pick a fight. He didn't get a survey when before or right after he bought the property. Why now?

Yes, I know the conventional method to deal with this is to spend money on another survey and hire a lawyer to deal with his. But I don't have extra money laying around for this crap.

How many of you here would ask your neighbor to tear down his fence when your survey show 3 inches off? I won't. Unless of course, the purpose of the survey was trying to screw your neighbor.

How about this, you are about the buy a property like "Flatheadyoungin" posting about his 40-acre purchase. Your survey show 3 inches over your neighbor side comparing to an existing survey stake of a fence. Now what do you do? Get another survey? Threaten your neighbor and force him to get another survey?

 

[Charlesaf3]

Paying for a survey in order to pay for lawyers in order to get half the value of a fence makes very little sense - I tend to doubt that's whats going on.

I still think you pissed him off, and now he's trying to piss you off. Seems to be working.

 

[MikePA]

I already got a fence and it's has been there over 30 years! The main issue here is somebody don't like my fence and trying to use a more recent survey (more or less accurate...) to force me to take down the existing fence. There was no doubt the fence was believe to be inside the property line on my property and it was surveyed 30 years ago althrough I'm unable to find the original stake.
His recent survey indicates my fence was 3 inches over on his side. The thickness of the fence and post is over 6 inches and it's not perfectly straight. Even with his survey, 75% of the fence is on my side. What I need is ammunition to show 3 inches is within the margin of error so there's no case for this idiot.

There is no 'ammunition' to show what you want.
TBN is a Family Friendly Site, so your veiled profanity has been deleted.
The fence being there for 30 years is irrelevant.
What people believe about the fence or the 30 year old survey is irrelevant.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do but there's no such thing as a standard that 3 inches is within the margin of error in a survey. A judge might decide that, but there's no such standard.

 

[RobJ]

I already got a fence and it's has been there over 30 years! The main issue here is somebody don't like my fence and trying to use a more recent survey (more or less accurate...) to force me to take down the existing fence. There was no doubt the fence was believe to be inside the property line on my property and it was surveyed 30 years ago althrough I'm unable to find the original stake.
His recent survey indicates my fence was 3 inches over on his side. The thickness of the fence and post is over 6 inches and it's not perfectly straight. Even with his survey, 75% of the fence is on my side. What I need is ammunition to show 3 inches is within the margin of error so there's no case for this idiot.

I hear ya. I'm don't know much about the adverse possesion (can't even spell it!! ), or some of the other legal mess. If it were me and I wanted to persue it the first thing I would do is get my own survey. This is the first thing any lawyer is going to do. Right now if you go in front of a judge he might ask you do you agree with the neighbors survey. If you say no then he'll say where is your surey. If you say yes...he might save move the fence partner!!

IMO about the only thing you do have going for you(without a survey) is your fence has been there for some time. Like my friend who I mentioned earlier with a simular problem..except he was the new guy on the block), he realized that he should have delt with the fence BEFORE closing.

Good Luck!! Rob

 

[tractor888]

There is no 'ammunition' to show what you want.
TBN is a Family Friendly Site, so your veiled profanity has been deleted.
The fence being there for 30 years is irrelevant.
What people believe about the fence or the 30 year old survey is irrelevant.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do but there's no such thing as a standard that 3 inches is within the margin of error in a survey. A judge might decide that, but there's no such standard.

Thanks for helping me chose a better word to describe him. If he's willing to spend that kind of money just to piss me off then he did a pretty good job in doing that. I guess I'll just sit and wait to see what comes next...