How do I raise the 3ph higher?

[Racer71]

Hi all,

My rear blade has an adjustment pin so I can "tilt" the balde and cut at an angle. I run out of travel on the 3ph when I configure the blade this way. I can't get the blade off of the ground.

What is the best way to get it up in the air? If I shorten the top link I loose the cutting angle on the blade. I have some other ideas but I want to hear yours.

Sorry I don't have a picture. I will take some if needed.

 

[JC-jetro]

Hi all,

My rear blade has an adjustment pin so I can "tilt" the balde and cut at an angle. I run out of travel on the 3ph when I configure the blade this way. I can't get the blade off of the ground.

What is the best way to get it up in the air? If I shorten the top link I loose the cutting angle on the blade. I have some other ideas but I want to hear yours.

Sorry I don't have a picture. I will take some if needed.

I think you can lift the implement a bit higher if you attach the lift arm/rod to the hole closest to the end lift link. That should lift the arm higher but may tend to deform the link at the yoke.

JC,

 

[RedDirt]

Hi all,

My rear blade has an adjustment pin so I can "tilt" the balde and cut at an angle. I run out of travel on the 3ph when I configure the blade this way. I can't get the blade off of the ground.

What is the best way to get it up in the air? If I shorten the top link I loose the cutting angle on the blade. I have some other ideas but I want to hear yours.

Sorry I don't have a picture. I will take some if needed.

I have the same problem. Although I can get my back blade several inches off the ground I'd like it to go higher for pushing dirt/snow into a pile.

Tractor is bx23 and blade is Cat1 so low control arms coupled with higher stance implement combines for low lift.

I thought of welding new side arm tabs below the existing ones until I realized this would prevent 360 degree rotation of the blade.

Has anyone found a solution?

 

[wushaw]

Yea you can alter one of them quick hitches or build a whole new one with higher attach points than the existing attach points so when you hook up to the rear blade your 3pt will be lower therefore having more 3pt height so you can angle the blade and get the necessary ground clearance.

You won't be able to turn the blade 360 deg with this on so if you have to do that ya just remove it and attach it normally but you won't have anything permanently mounted to the blade.

 

[allenr]

I'm unfamiliar with the tractors discussed, but some have splines where the top lift arms rotate (below the the rear of the seat).

If you pull the arms off the spline and turn them one spline higher you'll get more lift.

Regards Allen

 

[bjcsc]

I'm unfamiliar with the tractors discussed, but some have splines where the top lift arms rotate (below the the rear of the seat).

If you pull the arms off the spline and turn them one spline higher you'll get more lift.

Regards Allen

This is true, but remember the lowest point will be correspondingly higher as well...

 

[RalphVa]

Many tractor lift arms (the ones that are attached to the lower arms of the 3 ph) have several holes to choose from. Just attach to a higher hole or holes. My 4010 has only one other set of holes, but I've seen some tractors with several choices.

Ralph

 

[SkunkWerX]

Yea you can alter one of them quick hitches or build a whole new one with higher attach points than the existing attach points so when you hook up to the rear blade your 3pt will be lower therefore having more 3pt height so you can angle the blade and get the necessary ground clearance.

You won't be able to turn the blade 360 deg with this on so if you have to do that ya just remove it and attach it normally but you won't have anything permanently mounted to the blade.

That is a good idea, if you take proper measurements you may still be able to spin the blade 360, depending on how far below it's pins the top of the blade is.

RedDirt, on my BX2350 I can lift my RGB a good 18 inches off the ground, so I am having trouble picturing why you cannot? Is it simply too large of a Blade? Mine is standard CAT1, from about 20 years ago, and it was a 6 footer before i cut it down to 5 feet.

Try to shorten your toplink as much as possible. If not, get a shorter one.
(even thought the BX toplink is among the shortest).

Only other thing I can think of is that the "A" frame on the blade is very tall (height from lower pins to toplink hole). If this is the case, maybe there is a way to fabricate a lower toplink hole?

Check this pic:
RearBlade on BX2350

 

[clarityconnect]

Yea you can alter one of them quick hitches or build a whole new one with higher attach points than the existing attach points so when you hook up to the rear blade your 3pt will be lower therefore having more 3pt height so you can angle the blade and get the necessary ground clearance.

You won't be able to turn the blade 360 deg with this on so if you have to do that ya just remove it and attach it normally but you won't have anything permanently mounted to the blade.

Carter & Sons Tool & Die in Shepherdsville, KY make a quick hitch that will raise your implement about 3" higher. You can check this out and see how their hitches look and work on their website Welcome to CARTER AND SON'S TOOL AND DIE. I've used a set of their hitches on my JD4120 and they are superb. No problems and quick hook-ups. Jerome Carter is also very responsive and will correct any problem that might arise, and he stands by his product with 100% satisfaction.

Ed

 

[jimgerken]

Hydraulic top link.

 

[4720 OWNER]

SKUNKWERX

That is really sweet looking rig.

 

[RedDirt]

That is a good idea, if you take proper measurements you may still be able to spin the blade 360, depending on how far below it's pins the top of the blade is.

RedDirt, on my BX2350 I can lift my RGB a good 18 inches off the ground, so I am having trouble picturing why you cannot? Is it simply too large of a Blade? Mine is standard CAT1, from about 20 years ago, and it was a 6 footer before i cut it down to 5 feet.

Try to shorten your toplink as much as possible. If not, get a shorter one.
(even thought the BX toplink is among the shortest).

Only other thing I can think of is that the "A" frame on the blade is very tall (height from lower pins to toplink hole). If this is the case, maybe there is a way to fabricate a lower toplink hole?

Check this pic:
RearBlade on BX2350

Skunk,
It is a little difficult to see from this photo because the blade is reversed and angled for pushing snow but bottom of blade is only 7 1/2" from ground when fully raised. My lower pin to top link pin measurement is 17 1/2". What does your measure? The blade is 5ft wide.



I can shorten the top link about 2 inches and gain blade height but then, like Racer, the cutting edge angle of attack changes to more of a scraping (when pulling) rather than cutting angle.

Right now my top link length is set so when the blade is lowered to the ground the top and bottom edges of the blade form a plumb line. At this setting the horizontal bar (side link to blade pivot) is at a slight uphill angle to the rear. As I see it, this horizontal angle would be best if it were actually level . Then rotation of the blade would not change the transverse (?) angle of the blade. (The more the pivot tilts (from fore/aft plumb) the more the sideways angle changes when you rotate the blade.)

To me, all this geometry means is that my blade was meant to be mounted on a tractor with a higher 3PH. The only apparent fix may be something similar to the Carter Quick Hitch that raises the lower pin connection on the tractor. As wushaw noted, you'd not be able to rotate 360 without disconnecting but, unlike my idea of lowering the pin connection on the implement, the blade could indeed be rotated.

 

[DavidVT]

First I am a lightweight tractor user with 300hrs on my first tractor experience.

OK, my tractor is a bit larger (L3430) but I am still curious about this problem.

On my tractor the top link seems to have the most effect on lifted or transit height. I have three vertical choices on the rear of the tractor for attaching the top link. The lowest point to connect the top link will give the attachment the greatest lift when fully raised. I assume this is due to the geometry of the lift arms in relation to the top link's anchor point.

So, seeing that your tractor seems to only have one mounting point at the tractor side for the top link, is there any way to safely fabricate a lower connection point (at least for testing the idea?)

If the more experienced see a flaw in my thinking, so be it...

Good luck!!

 

[Mundy]

I believe the A-frame is too tall.
If your toplink attached lower in the A-frame you would still be able to adjust the proper cutting angle when the blade is down but the geometry change when lifted would give you much more height.

I had simular issues with a cat0 3pt tractor when I adapted a cat1 rear blade. I ended up lowering the top link holes about 3 inch's in the A-frame and it made a world of differnce.

Regrds,
Mundy

 

[SkunkWerX]

I believe the A-frame is too tall.
If your toplink attached lower in the A-frame you would still be able to adjust the proper cutting angle when the blade is down but the geometry change when lifted would give you much more height.

I had simular issues with a cat0 3pt tractor when I adapted a cat1 rear blade. I ended up lowering the top link holes about 3 inch's in the A-frame and it made a world of differnce.

Mundy said what I was thinking in my last post.

RedDirt, my blade is a few acres away, but I'll go down there this eve and take a measure for you. I am guessing the A frame on mine is shorter by the looks of it.

You may very well be right, that blade might be engineered for a Taller Tractor? Though, as a 5 foot blade, you wouldn't think it would be meant for "huge" tractor?

This may be the difference between a blade made for a full size Ag-style tractor vs. a compact???

I'll get back to you this eve with a measurement.

****edit: back with the measurement, it is 17", maybe 17.5" center of bottom pins, to center of toplink hole.

OK, this is weird. My blade is at a normal cutting angle when scraping the surface.
Now are we looking at blade geometry??

 

[Mundy]

You are correct. we are not looking at blade geometry. We are looking at 3pt lift Geometry.
A change to 3pt geometry can achieve the same blade cutting/scraping angle in the down position but provide a higher amount of implement rotation during lift and result in the blade being higher in the up position.

Regards,
Mundy

 

[Racer71]

Good feedback guys. Keep it coming.

 

[RedDirt]

You are correct. we are not looking at blade geometry. We are looking at 3pt lift Geometry.
A change to 3pt geometry can achieve the same blade cutting/scraping angle in the down position but provide a higher amount of implement rotation during lift and result in the blade being higher in the up position.

Regards,
Mundy

Mundy,
Thanks for the observation, and I agree, generally, but how so here? SkunkWerXs and I have very similar tractors. Presuming our side links are the same length and the distance between the lower arms and top link is the same (vertical at the tractor end) and the side link to top link dimension is within 1/2" (vertical at the implement), how can he have an 18" lift and I have only 7 1/2"? The only variable is the top link length and this is what changes the cutting angle.

Skunk,
Thanks for the measurement. Tomorrow I'll pull the bx23 out of the shop and get a better side photo for an easier comparison to you photo. Our blades look VERY similar.

I was in the process of trying to jury rig a lower top link connection for trail when "work" called...then after work the power went down.

 

[Mundy]

Thanks for the observation, and I agree, generally, but how so here? SkunkWerXs and I have very similar tractors. Presuming our side links are the same length and the distance between the lower arms and top link is the same (vertical at the tractor end) and the side link to top link dimension is within 1/2" (vertical at the implement), how can he have an 18" lift and I have only 7 1/2"? The only variable is the top link length and this is what changes the cutting angle.

Yes, top link length is the key. I am not talking about any measures or attachment points on the tractor. Some tractors are adjustable here. I Have assumed yours is not. I am talking about distance between lift arms and top link at the pins and hole in the A-frame of the implement.
A 1/2" vertical at the implement will change the top link length and make a big differnce 5' out at the blade. I don't know about 10 1/2" differnce but it is possible.


Compair the measures he gave with yours including top link length and let us know how close they are.




Mundy

 

[Mundy]

A few things I just noticed when compairing your photos. The 2 blades A-frames are very differnt. Yours has the lift pins closer to the tractor than the toplink hole. SkunkWerx blade they are the same distance from the tractor. This by desing makes his toplink shorter and provides him with more rotation and lift. And if his top link hole is 1/2" lower that provides an even shorter toplink.

Regards,
Mundy