How is this not robbery?

[J_J]

Follow up. Would it be legal to insist or enforced that the mechanic work the full 3 hours on your car, since the quote was for 3 hours, and not work on someone else car.

In my opinion you are buying/paying for the time from the mechanic/business. You should have exclusive rights to his time and expertise for that one job.

 

[Elkins45]

An analogy, you are out of gas on a highway, and I come by and stop , and I have a gal of gas. You need it, and I want $30 for it. Am I taking advantage of you if I sell it. and am I being hateful if I refuse to sell it to you.

Not the same: you could have taken a vehicle with only a busted wiper motor anywhere to have it repaired if you didn't like their quote. You weren't stranded because of it. You could have deferred this particular repair until you could find a shop with a quote more to your liking. You agreed to the original quote, so it must have not been too objectionable to you at the time.

Last week I paid a guy $70 to do what essentially amounted to nothing more than cleaning a corroded contact in the outside unit of my air conditioner. Turns out there's a relay in there and the points got carboned/corroded. Total time was 10 minutes from the time he opened it up to the time he was leaving, but he charged me $50 just for showing up. Am I upset about that? Not even remotely-I knew going in that there would be a fee for professional services. The way I see it you have even less reason to be upset because you knew in advance what the fee would be.

 

[J_J]

I own and operate a small auto repair shop and have been in this building 22 years and I assure you I am not robbing anyone or misrepresenting anything I do never have never will.

I dont advertize my customers do all that for me they are happy they have me and visaversa.

I use a nationally published auto labor guide program like most shops do on my computer to generate tickets and I promise we dont get rich with the labor guide.

It isn't tech friendly so dont kid yourself on that aspect either the rates are based on what a factory trained tech can take a brand new car apart time wise with no rust or dirt or customer added bs and he knows what he is doing and he has the tools he needs and the parts are right there on his cart.

A tech on flat rate would probably never even get into that discussion with anyone because no one in their right mind would be in this business if they knew what all of us know after its too late because we already made our careers out of it!

Explaining to any sane and reasonable person why we had to replace that new water pump a week later for free because we had been the one that put it on and it went bad because its a bad part we had no control over no body would be in this business I promise if they had fore sight.

Same thing with that wiper motor you wouldn't pay twice to replace it right???

My question is this they said 3 hours and you ok'd the work at a certain price well what if he took all day and he worked hard at it because the bolts were rusty and broke or you had a 3' long bumper guard etc that impeded his ability to do the work it was jacked up 10" body lift etc would you pay him for all day?

Don't answer I already know have a great day.

No, you actually don't know the answer. I am reasonable to a point.

If more time is needed, then a simple phone call to explain would be good.

He could refuse the job because of mitigating circumstances beyond his control.

If he indeed did take all day to do the work beyond the 3 hr estimate , we would have to come to an understanding about what went wrong.

 

[JDgreen227]

Last time I had repairs done on one of our vehicles at a dealership the cost for labor was about $85 an hour, probably over $100 per hour today. While I would agree to paying $100 an hour for competent work, last time we had a car in the shop the mechanic left half the fasteners on the firewall loose, and he left the air cleaner ductwork unconnected so the engine could suck in dirt. When you pay an obscene labor charge like that I expect FIRST CLASS, PERFECT WORK not HALF-A-- work and I told the shop to shove it and why and told them I was never coming back again. SCROOM I do 90% of the repairs (oil changes, brakes, struts, shocks, tune ups etc) on our vehicles now. FRICKING CROOKS.

 

[J_J]

Not the same: you could have taken a vehicle with only a busted wiper motor anywhere to have it repaired if you didn't like their quote. You weren't stranded because of it. You could have deferred this particular repair until you could find a shop with a quote more to your liking. You agreed to the original quote, so it must have not been too objectionable to you at the time.

Last week I paid a guy $70 to do what essentially amounted to nothing more than cleaning a corroded contact in the outside unit of my air conditioner. Turns out there's a relay in there and the points got carboned/corroded. Total time was 10 minutes from the time he opened it up to the time he was leaving, but he charged me $50 just for showing up. Am I upset about that? Not even remotely-I knew going in that there would be a fee for professional services. The way I see it you have even less reason to be upset because you knew in advance what the fee would be.

Yes, I really did have to get the wiper fixed, it rains quite often here in Jacksonville.

I am not upset, because I know what it takes to do the job. I don't have to like it. It was a necessary fix, and I didn't have time to run all over town getting estimates, as most of them would look in the book/computer and get the same answers.

If you can find a backyard mechanic, they can usually do it for less. There is really no expertise in replacing the wiper motor. Remove three bolts, remove the cowling and removing the spring clip. Install the motor, connect the clip, install the cowling, and you are done.

I hope some of you people don't think that I am without knowledge.

 

[MoKelly]

Have you been to a restaurant lately? My guess is yes. I bet you paid $1.25 or more for that tea that cost only .15 or less to make. Did you complain? Probably not.

I was at a sit down place the other day and they charged me $2.45 for ice tea. It was bottomless refills but wow that seemed steep. Seems like the trend is to hold the prices on the food but make the money on drinks.

Mokelly

 

[Bird]

I was at a sit down place the other day and they charged me $2.45 for ice tea. It was bottomless refills but wow that seemed steep. Seems like the trend is to hold the prices on the food but make the money on drinks.

Mokelly

I agree, but isn't that a trend that's been around for 20 or more years?

 

[CharlieS]

I can't count the number of times I'd be out on a service call to be told "my (pick a room) light doesn't work" only to change the lamp and presto. Home owner says "I changed the bulb" so I ask if they put a second "good" bulb in. The reply is, "well no, but it was a new bulb". but even new parts are sometimes defective.
Bottom line is if the job takes 5 minutes or an hour, the overhead costs are the same. Time to drive to the job, fuel, insurance, parts inventory on service truck, consult with homeowner, and so on, the cost to arrive at the job remains the same.
Then 9 times out of 10, you spend as much time waiting on the home owner to move his or her crap out of the way just so you can diagose and repair the problem.
Then there are the times you pay someone for knowing as much as doing.

 

[plowking]

Depends if you want to be a ballbuster or not. I pay good money to have my truck or tractor fixed or serviced,but if I needed a repair or a favor they would help me out. My son in law is a service tech,he is always taking tests,refresher courses and paying the tool man. I have done things for free in my business in the past but you have to keep friendship,business seperate in some cases. When I do work for people who have done things or provided a service for me,I pay them and they pay my rate in return. Barter has not worked out well for me. plowking

 

[Redbug]

I understand what JJ is saying. And sometimes you don't know enough to know you are being scammed to walk out of there.

I think a system that has a set rate of time for a particular job and mechanic gets it done in a quarter of the time, then goes onto another project, tells me the system needs to be reworked with new set of billing hours. It's certainly unfair to the customer. I think you should be billed for the time spent on the project...and if it takes more time, then billed for that, too. It should all be up front. I think they are crooks and the system they have is an excuse to take advantage of unknowing victims.

I stay away from the dealers and go to the Mom and Pop operations. The folks I go to are a couple miles away and we know each other personally from doing business all these years. They do me right and they will have my business till I can't drive anymore.

 

[chopped]

JJ thanks for posting this. Its good to get our minds working..and thinking...right or wrong

 

[wrenchturner]

Yea, thanks from me too. It takes some courage to post a question knowing you might receive a lot of flak over.

 

[whodat526]

i dont think its robbery because if the flatrate manual says it takes someone three hours to do a job that is what the factory determind not the mechanic and it is always able to be beat if the mechanic has had enough practice if they quoted u 3 hours and u agreed i dont see a problem

 

[Bison]

You get an estimate to do a job, and the labor is, say $45 per hour, and maybe the mechanic gets $18 per hour . They say that the time to install a wiper motor is three hours.

Now you watch them install the motor in one hour, and watch them work on others vehicles during your so called time.

The mechanic gets $18 per hour, and the business get the rest. Now, lets say that the mechanic installs 7 motors in an 8 hour day, one hr for lunch. 7 hours and charging 7 customers another 14 hours for work not done.

So, what that means is that the mechanic gets $18 per hour, times 7=$126 per day.and the business gets $117 per hour times 3 for the three hrs charged to do the job, and 7 times that for the day. .

Customer brings in his new motor.

So, for installing 7 wiper motors at 1 hr each, and charging customers 3 hr labor, the mechanic gets $126 per day, and the business gets $819.

I don't even want to hear about the mechanic that can beat the book time and therefore lie to the customer that he worked the full three hrs on his car. What else can it be called except theft by deception. He quoted you a time to do the job, but did not give you honest work time.

I never have liked those times to repair, they always seem to allow to much time.

If you hired someone to dig a ditch that should only take 1 hour, would you pay him for the 3 hours it took him to actually dig the ditch.

You have to consider this, or maybe not, was the book time for labor based on the dumbest low rent individual in the test group, or was it designed to take people hard earned money.

The time not worked on your machine is pure profit.

I also don't see where I should have to pay for all the little extras added to the cost either. Rags, lubricants, solvents, rubber gloves, safety shoes, etc. The labor per hour should cover everything. Business expense is just that. I will bet that they claim the expense on their income tax as an expense, although they have been compensated by the customer.

You don't even have to agree, it is a fact that has been proven.

Robbery...No....Dishonest practise...Yes.
Cause no one forces you to have the work done there for the price quoted.
If you you tell them to go ahead and do the job then you can blame only yourself.Call it education.

For this very reason i became a jack of all trades and learned to fix my own equipment and do the maintenance as well.

 

[bcp]

If the mechanic can better the flat rate time while still doing a good job, he deserves the extra pay.

But the shop also gets their portion increased, too, for doing nothing extra.

Conditions:
$100 per hr. labor rate. Mechanic gets 50%.
Two hr job, by the book. Cost = $200.

Average mechanic:
Mechanic does it in 2 hrs., gets $50 per hour. Shop gets $50 per hour.

Better mechanic:
Mechanic does it in one hr., gets $100 per hour. Shop gets $100 per hour.

What did the shop do better to double their portion?

Bruce

 

[Bison]

In simple terms, the price you quoted me for 1 hr of work is what the business figures is the labor rate per hour. If you work 1 hr, the business should get
paid for 1 hr work.

Call it what you like, it is a lie.

That kind of deal make me want to gouge someone else. Why should someone get that kind of money for nothing.

I guess that is why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

I am thinking that the people that think the book rate is fair, is the people that is dong just that.

How is it that, say 2 or 3 transmission shops will quote a rebuild transmission, and have a money spread of $750 to $1800.

If you want to talk about overcharging!...When was the last time you needed your Dentist or a lawyer.

 

[Bison]

Well, it seems I did alright in my lawn service, pressure washing, sprinkler installation and repair, for about 22 years.

All were flat rate jobs.

I did a lot of free stuff also.

I am 71 years old, and the only reason I had to quit work was diabetic neuropathy in my feet.

And you have the gall to tell me I don't know anything about business after working 8 hrs a day in the hot Florida sun for 22 years. .
.

Big deal,only 22 yrs.
I been farming/ranching/wrenching in the rain,cold and heat for the better part of 45 yrs and still at it.

 

[J_J]

Don't brag to much, as I was in an orphanage for 15 years, US NAVY for 22 years, and landscaping/lawn service for 22 years. Yep, big deal. I quit working hard about 5 years ago.

If your health is good, and you have the know how, and the machines, there is no reason to just quit, unless you are just plain tired of it.

 

[johnrex62]

When I was young enough to get my first car, the mechanic my family used explained to me that his shop billed by book rate regardless of the time it took to do the job. Sometimes it worked in his favor, sometimes not, but he told everyone up front that was his practice.

I think if the shop is upfront with the billing practice and you agree you have not been robbed. If the shop says they charge the book rate and then charge you for the greater hours when the job takes longer then you have been robbed.

 

[Alan L.]

I really don't care what the hourly rate is, just what the repair will cost. If I don't like the figure they give me I can check out a competitor. Any time I have to estimate a job I go high because I know problems can arise. If I estimate the hours I expect the job to take, over the long haul I will not make any money because there is no allowance in there for the overages which will occur.

I don't think they are representing that they will spend x number of hours at all. Its just a way to figure what to charge for one repair vs another kind of repair.

It is a free market, if a garage charges everyone too much they will lose their customers and go broke.