Tractor Sizing How Much Can A Sub Compact Tractor lift?

[LD1]

Axle, you deleted words. Once again you have tried to change the meaning of someone's post. LD1 gave a description of a group of tasks someone wanting a tractor may have in mind. If that group of tasks is to skid logs, dig in the dirt, plow a drive, move pallets AND pull a moldboard plow. A SCUT is not the way to go for this group of tasks. Le me break it down:

Skid logs - if you want to limit yourself to small chunks of wood, then sure, use an SCUT. But if you want to skid logs efficiently, bigger is better. The only limitation to size is the tightness of your logging trail. LD-1's post didn't say "skid small logs" So we should not assume he only meant small logs.

Dig in the dirt - we should not assume LD-1 means nice non-compacted top soil. If you dig in the dirt, you will run into big obstacles, hard packed clay etc.. A bigger machine is more likely to get the job done without calling in an even bigger machine - which often happens even with CUTs and UTs because neither are very big when it come to digging.

Plow a drive - This one could be done buy any tractor as long as you have time on your hands and you clear often enough that it doesn't get too high for your machine. But it was only one task in a description of many given as an example. And if you have a lot of clearing to do, it is not practical with a SCUT due to time considerations.

Move pallets - most people who get pallets delivered are talking about full pallets. Full pallets of most building materials are not liftable with a SCUT without doing some off loading by hand. Who wants to buy a tractor to move pallets and then have to off load by hand?

Pull a mold board plow - SCUT doesn't have the ground clearance or traction/weight to do this well


Axle - Your head seems pre-programed to believe that many people here are trying to put down SCUTs and make them out to be less than they are. Due to this bias, you misunderstand what they say because you are trying to force it to fit your pre-conceived notion about them. You seek to correct before you seek to understand.

On top of this, from your posts it seems that you are very new to tractors. If that is the case, why are you so argumentative when experienced operators share their experience. You seem to value the input of those without experience more than those with experience. This is non-sense.

Consider this a friendly intervention. Just pointing out some observations. I'm hoping you can grow out of this and get to the point that you realize that the folks her have good intent and that if it sounds like someone is putting someone down, you may have misread the post and should seek to understand before twisting their words.

Thanks for clearing it all up so I dont have to type it out. Didnt get a chance to today...sleep and work are backwards for me....Nightshift

 

[TJP89]

Axle, you deleted words. Once again you have tried to change the meaning of someone's post. LD1 gave a description of a group of tasks someone wanting a tractor may have in mind. If that group of tasks is to skid logs, dig in the dirt, plow a drive, move pallets AND pull a moldboard plow. A SCUT is not the way to go for this group of tasks. Le me break it down:

Skid logs - if you want to limit yourself to small chunks of wood, then sure, use an SCUT. But if you want to skid logs efficiently, bigger is better. The only limitation to size is the tightness of your logging trail. LD-1's post didn't say "skid small logs" So we should not assume he only meant small logs.

Dig in the dirt - we should not assume LD-1 means nice non-compacted top soil. If you dig in the dirt, you will run into big obstacles, hard packed clay etc.. A bigger machine is more likely to get the job done without calling in an even bigger machine - which often happens even with CUTs and UTs because neither are very big when it come to digging.

Plow a drive - This one could be done buy any tractor as long as you have time on your hands and you clear often enough that it doesn't get too high for your machine. But it was only one task in a description of many given as an example. And if you have a lot of clearing to do, it is not practical with a SCUT due to time considerations.

Move pallets - most people who get pallets delivered are talking about full pallets. Full pallets of most building materials are not liftable with a SCUT without doing some off loading by hand. Who wants to buy a tractor to move pallets and then have to off load by hand?

Pull a mold board plow - SCUT doesn't have the ground clearance or traction/weight to do this well


Axle - Your head seems pre-programed to believe that many people here are trying to put down SCUTs and make them out to be less than they are. Due to this bias, you misunderstand what they say because you are trying to force it to fit your pre-conceived notion about them. You seek to correct before you seek to understand.

On top of this, from your posts it seems that you are very new to tractors. If that is the case, why are you so argumentative when experienced operators share their experience. You seem to value the input of those without experience more than those with experience. This is non-sense.

Consider this a friendly intervention. Just pointing out some observations. I'm hoping you can grow out of this and get to the point that you realize that the folks her have good intent and that if it sounds like someone is putting someone down, you may have misread the post and should seek to understand before twisting their words.

Axle, I know you lifted pallets of bricks in your test, but as gladehound says, most people are talking real pallet loads. When I poured the footers for my lean-to this spring, I needed over 1500# of concrete, in 60# bags. HD loaded it on the trailer with a forklift on a pallet. My 35HP Kioti has only 1100# of lift on the loader, and I don't even have pallet forks, so I used the 3PTH. However, even my much bigger tractor didn't have the capacity to handle full pallets. If I was doing that on a daily basis, I'd have a DK45 with upwards of 2500# or lift capacity. A SCUT does not have the lift capacity to handle common pallet loads, while a bigger CUT does.

 

[gladehound]

I have seen several members on here before call a SCUT an overgrown lawn mower.
So I can see why some SCUT owners get a little defensive. They are far more than an overgrown lawn mower IMO
Years ago when I lived on less acreage than I have now I squeaked by with a Wheel Horse garden tractor.
Back then I would have loved to have had a SCUT.

I don't see why someone would be offended if someone called there SCUT an overgrown mower, because it is an overgrown mower. SCUTs are designed with mowing as a primary purpose. And as far as mowers go, they are on the largish side (i.e. overgrown). However, there are certainly dedicated mowers that are much larger than any SCUT. For someone to take offense at this they must already have a sensitivity and want everyone to be clear that their SCUT is no mower... but it is...

I think part of the sensitivity comes from the fact that if you take off the loader and back hoe, a SCUT looks similar to a box store "lawn tractor" to non-tractor people. I put "lawn tractor" in quotes because most of these are not actually designed for pushing and/or pulling. So by definition they are not tractors. Honestly, if I sat a GC1715 and a box store mower in my barn my wife wouldn't realize that there is any difference in purpose or capability.

However, a SCUT is not ONLY an over grown mower. It is much, much more. It has similar (scaled down) capabilities to CUTs and UTs. Like any tractor, it is designed for pushing and / or pulling and can be made more useful with a variety of attachments.

So to get upset because someone calls a SCUT an overgrown lawn mower is silly. That would be like me getting upset for someone calling me handsome and forgetting to point out that I'm also tall

 

[AxleHub]

Thanks for clearing it all up so I dont have to type it out. Didnt get a chance to today...sleep and work are backwards for me....Nightshift

Sorry ld1 . . But glade didn't clear anything up. His conceot that I changed words was not correct . . I deleted items that I had never talked about . . Only you used those words. But more importantly in virtually every post where he "quotes" me .
He does the same thing or paraphrases things that I don't say.

You claimed a scut is a choice for lawn cutting, or moving mulch, or plowing a total of 12 inches of snow per winter.

And you claimed it isn't a good choice for plowing a driveway or digging dirt, or using pallets . . . and I gave you examples of much smaller equipment doing those things. Now Glade can try to back walk assumptions or claim he never does what he claims I did or that he's performing an intervention of assumptions he choises to make . . but it just doesn't make it so.

There's lots of good and fair posters on tbn who own big equipment . . And I value their opinions considerably . . And I learn from them as do many others . . But there are also some who either don't undersrand they are insensitive or don't care. I find it very hard to be lectured to by some who think a valuable opinion is the loudest opinion or who assume interpretations to fit their needs and desires.

I'm perfectly happy to have any if my posts challenged . . but not by assumption . . But by my words and deeds . . Not by their guesses.

Thamks for listening.

Axlehub

 

[k0ua]

So to get upset because someone calls a SCUT an overgrown lawn mower is silly. That would be like me getting upset for someone calling me handsome and forgetting to point out that I'm also tall

Now that there is funny! bout time for some levity in this thread!:thumbsup:

 

[AxleHub]

Axle, I know you lifted pallets of bricks in your test, but as gladehound says, most people are talking real pallet loads. When I poured the footers for my lean-to this spring, I needed over 1500# of concrete, in 60# bags. HD loaded it on the trailer with a forklift on a pallet. My 35HP Kioti has only 1100# of lift on the loader, and I don't even have pallet forks, so I used the 3PTH. However, even my much bigger tractor didn't have the capacity to handle full pallets. If I was doing that on a daily basis, I'd have a DK45 with upwards of 2500# or lift capacity. A SCUT does not have the lift capacity to handle common pallet loads, while a bigger CUT does.

Thanks tjp89,

I think you're making an honest effort to communicate . . But understand the other side of the coin . . You wrote "most people are talking real pallet loads."

I disagree . . Maybe some big tractor owners assume that . . But its a mistake to assume somethung not stated.

A FULL pallet load of insulated concrete blocks weighs less than 125 pounds. A FULL pallet of pvc pipe is less than 250.
Words have meaning and they should be used that way. People want to blame me for their wrong assumptions . . Most people don't assume a pallet is automatically 4000 lbs or 2000 lbs or 1500 lbs. Its just a pallet . . Not to mention hauling partial pallets.

My point is that some big tractor people want everything to be based on an arbitrary set of conditions that others don't use. That's their failing . . Not other people's imo.

Thank you for your effort . . and I have responded in similar fashion.

 

[AxleHub]

Now that there is funny! bout time for some levity in this thread!:thumbsup:

I agree k0ua, I don't write emotionally but I smile often

 

[4570Man]

Well, if all you are trying to do is lift empty pallets then you don't need a tractor. When somebody says pallets without giving out any more information what to you assume. Please don't say aliens. Two guys could lift a pallet of PVC pipe, so that isn't much of an accomplishment for a tractor.

 

[gladehound]

Sorry ld1 . . But glade didn't clear anything up. His conceot that I changed words was not correct . . I deleted items that I had never talked about . . Only you used those words. But more importantly in virtually every post where he "quotes" me .
He does the same thing or paraphrases things that I don't say.

You claimed a scut is a choice for lawn cutting, or moving mulch, or plowing a total of 12 inches of snow per winter.

And you claimed it isn't a good choice for plowing a driveway or digging dirt, or using pallets . . . and I gave you examples of much smaller equipment doing those things. Now Glade can try to back walk assumptions or claim he never does what he claims I did or that he's performing an intervention of assumptions he choises to make . . but it just doesn't make it so.

There's lots of good and fair posters on tbn who own big equipment . . And I value their opinions considerably . . And I learn from them as do many others . . But there are also some who either don't undersrand they are insensitive or don't care. I find it very hard to be lectured to by some who think a valuable opinion is the loudest opinion or who assume interpretations to fit their needs and desires.

I'm perfectly happy to have any if my posts challenged . . but not by assumption . . But by my words and deeds . . Not by their guesses.

Thamks for listening.

Axlehub

Obviously the intervention was a failure.

Axle, you made incorrect assumptions about LD-1's post in your response. It was clear to me that you misinterpreted LD-1's post. I thought I had a good understanding of where LD1 was coming from so I tried to explain it and LD1 confirmed that my explanation captured the intent of his post. BTW - it is completely illogical to write "His concept that I changed words was not correct" since I never said you changed words. You go on to write "I deleted..." yea, that's what I said.

Please give me an example of something that you wrote that ran with, with false assumptions. If I did that, I apologize.

 

[gladehound]

Thanks tjp89,

I think you're making an honest effort to communicate . . But understand the other side of the coin . . You wrote "most people are talking real pallet loads."

I disagree . . Maybe some big tractor owners assume that . . But its a mistake to assume somethung not stated.

A FULL pallet load of insulated concrete blocks weighs less than 125 pounds. A FULL pallet of pvc pipe is less than 250.
Words have meaning and they should be used that way. People want to blame me for their wrong assumptions . . Most people don't assume a pallet is automatically 4000 lbs or 2000 lbs or 1500 lbs. Its just a pallet . . Not to mention hauling partial pallets.

My point is that some big tractor people want everything to be based on an arbitrary set of conditions that others don't use. That's their failing . . Not other people's imo.

Thank you for your effort . . and I have responded in similar fashion.

I think this post actually sheds some light on the different worlds that people are coming from. Words do have specific meaning. But that meaning is different in different locations. In the Philippines there are over 1,000 dialects. They are so different, the people from one island can't understand what people from another island are saying in their first tongue so they have to resort to English which has been taught in all the schools for at least 30 years now. I think there may be a little of that happening here.

In my neck of the woods, when someone talks about lifting a pallet, they are talking about 2000-3000 pounds. If they are talking about more than 3000 pounds, they may add, "and these pallets are heavy!". My cousin has said to me may times that he needs an extra machine to get pallets off trucks. Now these are not empty pallets. They have rocks on them and weight 2000-3000 pounds. When he says he needs a machine to move pallets, I know exactly what he is talking about because we are close enough in background to understand each other.

I'm beginning to think the backgrounds here are not close at all. I know one other person who talks like you Axle. He is actually one of my best friends but we aggravate the heck out of each other sometimes. He grew up in NY city and is a school teacher (Math and Science). He often will go off about something I said that is not what I meant and it is always because he has a certain definition of a word in his mind and I was using a different definition. So the meaning was not communicated. Talking is easy. Communicating is hard. And when people come from different places, communication is really hard.

You wrote:

"My point is that some big tractor people want everything to be based on an arbitrary set of conditions that others don't use. That's their failing . . Not other people's imo."

But doesn't it go both ways? Perhaps both sides need to seek understanding before getting defensive. And BTW - the set of conditions are not arbitrary. I understand LD-1 just fine and I've never met him outside of TBN.