Tractor Sizing How Much Can A Sub Compact Tractor lift?

[AxleHub]

Gee whiz! This thread has me pondering deeply and introspectively whether I'm really an SCUT kind of guy or a large CUT sort of fella or maybe even a UT person, because the zen and karma are apparently so radically different, or something. I may need counselling to sort my feelings out. But meanwhile, the following thoughts occurred, and might add something to the discussion.

No matter what size of machine we're dealing with, its safe weight handling ability depends a series of factors. I can think of a few:

1. Hydraulic capacity. Some machines are juiced-up more than others for whatever reason, and have more raw lifting power. Axle's original test, for example, showed more capability than the published specs for his GC.
2. Tractor dimensions. The tractor's length, width, height, weight and FEL geometry absolutely determine how it will behave when carrying a load under dynamic conditions. Several of us have made this point in various ways, I think trying to inform that sometimes just because a load can be lifted, maybe the tractor's dimensions can suggest it's less than prudent to do so. Axle's GC, for example, has pretty much the same size and weight as a BX, so it would be roughly about as stable under similar conditions, even if its hydraulics might be stronger. Rest assured there is no impure prejudice against SCUT's in my soul inspiring me to point this out.
3. Real world working conditions. This equipment works in all kinds of terrain and conditions... they ain't forklifts operating on a concrete floor. This is why the dimensions are so important. What works great under perfect conditions can be a disaster in the making on a hillside, rutted ground, in the muck, etc. I once watched a Bobcat do a perfect faceplant with a full bucket up high due to a small rut. All the lifting power in the world on a short wheelbase!
4. Structural considerations. If a manufacturer rates his tractor for 600 lbs payload in the FEL, is loading it up with 900 lbs something you really want to be doing regularly simply because your hydraulics will lift it? What's the design load of that front axle? What about the chassis? And those loader arms? By analogy, how do you feel about getting on an airplane whose wings have be subjected to maximum g forces too many times? Your tractor. If you want it to last, use it accordingly.
Finally,
5. The operator. What can I say. Good judgement always wins in the long run.

Cheers.

I think you had a very good and pleasant post Grandad.

One of the things I did when I did the testing that started this thread was to be very specific about my intentions and parameters. I've gotten a lot of "comments" about the manufacturer ratings and "overweighting". And that blah blah blah about maximum height.

I was incredibly specific about my heights of lift . . because I don't care what it lifts at maximum height. I know I can fill my bucket full of firt or gravel and lift it to its maximum easily . . Anything more doesn't make any difference to me. But at 30 inches and 42 inches . . that isn't rated and those numbers mean alot to me. Then I can adapt my safe operating margins from that (as I've posted often).

I liked your post Grandpa.

 

[ErikVann]

Btw you might be surprised at how capable the walk behind skid steers are. I wouldn't be surpired if that could not out push and out dig the gc1715.

 

[AxleHub]

Sorry I didn't spell out every tiny detail for you.

For the tasks in list 1
Pallets of 800-1500#. Stuff the average person would go get a skid of at Lowes that is 17.2 miles away and set in their 2003 chevy 1500 with 5.3, ac, and cruise. Like 15 bags of quickcrete brand cement mix, 3000psi, in 60# bags for building a deck, or a skid of mulch, natural color and not black.

For plowing, think a single or 2 bottom plow. Plowing a garden spot of 200' x 100'. Soil is a clay mix, good drainage, with a ph or 7.2, and plowing east to west and not north and south, area has about 3' fall over the 200', so pretty level.

Not to mention that pulling a disc goes hand in hand with plowing.

Digging in the dirt. I'm actually talking digging. Leveling a building pad, digging up stumps, making a ditch, backfilling trenches, etc.

The log skidding. I'm talking about an 18" dbh mulburry tree. Gotta brush it out with the dolmar ps540, use 3/8" gr70 chain with grab hooks, and skid it 134' out the trail in the woods to the landing area to buck up with a dolmar 84cc bigbore saw with 24' bar and full chisel. Or the twin 14" base surgar maple uprooted with the hoe back at the fencerow. Brush it out with the ps540 again, then drag to the area to cut it. Then used the loader to knock dirt off the 5' diameter rootball. That dirt looked a little low in nitrogen BTW. After that, push the stump and brush into a pile to be burned and fill what's left of the stump hole.

Did I leave anything out? Enough detail? Should I trade in for a SCUT?

Ld1,

A little overkill . . but you've got the idea.

I'd maybe look at a Yanmar 424 as a starting spot or a Massey 1736 if needed.

 

[gladehound]

Sorry I didn't spell out every tiny detail for you.

For the tasks in list 1
Pallets of 800-1500#. Stuff the average person would go get a skid of at Lowes that is 17.2 miles away and set in their 2003 chevy 1500 with 5.3, ac, and cruise. Like 15 bags of quickcrete brand cement mix, 3000psi, in 60# bags for building a deck, or a skid of mulch, natural color and not black.

For plowing, think a single or 2 bottom plow. Plowing a garden spot of 200' x 100'. Soil is a clay mix, good drainage, with a ph or 7.2, and plowing east to west and not north and south, area has about 3' fall over the 200', so pretty level.

Not to mention that pulling a disc goes hand in hand with plowing.

Digging in the dirt. I'm actually talking digging. Leveling a building pad, digging up stumps, making a ditch, backfilling trenches, etc.

The log skidding. I'm talking about an 18" dbh mulburry tree. Gotta brush it out with the dolmar ps540, use 3/8" gr70 chain with grab hooks, and skid it 134' out the trail in the woods to the landing area to buck up with a dolmar 84cc bigbore saw with 24' bar and full chisel. Or the twin 14" base surgar maple uprooted with the hoe back at the fencerow. Brush it out with the ps540 again, then drag to the area to cut it. Then used the loader to knock dirt off the 5' diameter rootball. That dirt looked a little low in nitrogen BTW. After that, push the stump and brush into a pile to be burned and fill what's left of the stump hole.

Did I leave anything out? Enough detail? Should I trade in for a SCUT?

I guess I never looked at your equipment list. Didn't know you were a Dolmar guy. I absolutely love my PS7900! 20", 28", 37" bars (that's 36" to an old timer). That saw just rocks! Looks like you have some of the older saws too! Now I'm Jealous!

 

[AxleHub]

Btw you might be surprised at how capable the walk behind skid steers are. I wouldn't be surpired if that could not out push and out dig the gc1715.

I used a dingo several times as a rental. I don't know how many sizes there are but the one I often used was a heck of a trencher and a very convenient fel function . . But the track drive sure didn't like any slope

 

[4570Man]

Btw you might be surprised at how capable the walk behind skid steers are. I wouldn't be surpired if that could not out push and out dig the gc1715.

A walk behind skid steer is pretty impressive. Several tree guys have at least one. After a recent ice storm the ground was too wet for my tractor or almost any tractor. The tracked walk behind skid steers could go in the wet lawns without causing damage. I would take a WBSS over a sub compact tractor any day. The WBSS could lift a 25" diameter 4 foot long white oak log.

 

[AxleHub]

This thread is hilarious! Clearly the op will never see the folly of his repeated argument that scuts are more capable than they are given credit for. Axel you seem **** bent to ignore the basic premise that while your gc tractor maybe capable of lifting more than the mf brochure says it is inherently dangerous to do so in all but the most controlled and static situations. give it up, your gc is not designed or intended to routinely do the work of a small or midsize cut. It works for you and that is great, leave it at that. Why do you feel the need to feverishly insinuate that the scut tractors are capable of operations for which they aren't designed or intended for by their manufacturers? It's foolish and does a diservice to those who are seeking clarity in a complex market.

Erikvann,

The brochure or manuals don't tell me what I wanted to know and posters were understating the potential . . so I tested. Isn't that frightening to actually "test"

There's nothing "feverish" in my effort . . at the same time . . I listen to most . . for insight and wisdom . . not louder voices.

I harm no one because I clarify why I do it and the specifics of what I do so I can determine the margins to actually use. If I can maximum lift 875 pounds above and beyond quick attach and bucket or fork weight . . then my margins under good conitions would be 700 pounds at 30 to 42 inches height. What others think of maximum height is their concern not mine and I have clearly defined it. At the same time . . I get alot of lectures about what I'm not when those that do it don't know what I am like in practice.

I have adapted many things in my methods from exposure to other's wisdom from tbn and other sources . . but following along in "lock step" because voices get loud . . isn't one of them.

I'm honest, and I don't get emotional. I apologize when I think I'm wrong . . and quite determined when I think others are bullying someone.

SCUTs are the largest selling category of tractor in 2014 snd 2015. To fail to recognize that fact is to fail to undetstand their uses and impact imo.

Thanks for listening.

 

[4570Man]

What if you needed to load a truck? This is not an unreasonable request. I commonly load logs over the side boards on a 1 ton dump truck.

 

[LD1]

Ld1,

A little overkill . . but you've got the idea.

I'd maybe look at a Yanmar 424 as a starting spot or a Massey 1736 if needed.

Pretty much what I have. Certainly not a SCUT though.

So earlier you picked a few tasks from a list and said a SCUT can do those few.

Now with a little more usless info you are suggesting a CUT?

Yes,I gave some pertinant info about weights and what not. But what pops into your mind when someone inquires about skidding logs and moldboard plowing? I certainly wouldn't think you would get a mental image of dragging a 6" tree you cut down across the yard.....

If intended uses are gonna be skidding or plowing/discing all other things aside, a SCUT is something I wouldn't recommend simply for small tire/ground clearance reasons.

I just have this mental image in my head now I cannot shake....of a SCUT stuck, high centered over a plow furrow

 

[LD1]

I guess I never looked at your equipment list. Didn't know you were a Dolmar guy. I absolutely love my PS7900! 20", 28", 37" bars (that's 36" to an old timer). That saw just rocks! Looks like you have some of the older saws too! Now I'm Jealous!

Great saws. Love the old ones. And am really fond of my 540 and 115i for nice limb work.

Had a 7900 that got stolen. The 6400 that threw a 84cc ported kit on was its replacement