Tractor Sizing How much HP do I really need?

[arrow]

Based on my experience with the 3016 - same as the 1526 - I cannot think of anything you would do on your sized property that you will not be able to do with the 1526.

And No, Arrow, I don't think the HST affects how it well it functions. It just feels different than a geared machine, but it's just as capable.

I knew you'd have something to say

 

[oldpilgrim]

you asked

 

[Laderbuilt]

Thirty four years ago I started my saga, out here, with a 26hp Ford 1700 4WD. It was the perfect size for snow removal on my mile long gravel driveway and all other, smaller, chores around my 80 acres. Seven years ago - most all the smaller chores were completed except snow removal on the driveway - and I then knew I needed more weight and horsepower. I wish I could have obtained the same frame size with a 60hp engine and added weight - but that was/is not the case. So I moved up to my current Kubota M6040 and can now easily complete the "larger/heavier" chores.

However - there are now those few times I wish I had the smaller tractor. The larger tractor, some times, requires that objects be moved so I can get to the work.

It appears that there will never quite be a perfect solution to all situations.

That is why I think I keep everything I have. I don't trade it in or sell it I keep it.
The only thing I sold was my Honda 5518 tractor. It was a great unit but cumbersome to swap from mowing season to snow season.
Also it needed work I was not willing to do due to parts costs and issues getting parts for it. I found a gentleman who wanted it and I made him aware of all the work that I Knew it needed. My next tractor I buy I will not trade in my Mahindra but give it a little sister.

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

That is why I think I keep everything I have. I don't trade it in or sell it I keep it.
The only thing I sold was my Honda 5518 tractor. It was a great unit but cumbersome to swap from mowing season to snow season.
Also it needed work I was not willing to do due to parts costs and issues getting parts for it. I found a gentleman who wanted it and I made him aware of all the work that I Knew it needed. My next tractor I buy I will not trade in my Mahindra but give it a little sister.

If you have the money to be able to do that, more power to you. I would only trade in or sell to condense and upgrade. I don't keep things around that I don't use or don't plan to use. I will keep 20 trucks if they excel at 20 diff jobs, if one truck does 20 jobs well I would sell all 20 and upgrade to one good one.

My rule is 2 years, if I haven't used it in the last 2 years it gets sold no matter what it is.

 

[Laderbuilt]

I wish I was more sensible in that regard but it seems every time I have sold and or gotten rid of something the next time is when I wished I still had it. I keep things forever so I'm 10-15 years my Mahindra won't be worth much so if I was buying another tractor what's 1-2k dollars when I'm already spending 20k+. I keep my cars till there just about dead "being a mechanic I know just when that is" so after that it's worth scrap value.

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

I wish I was more sensible in that regard but it seems every time I have sold and or gotten rid of something the next time is when I wished I still had it. I keep things forever so I'm 10-15 years my Mahindra won't be worth much so if I was buying another tractor what's 1-2k dollars when I'm already spending 20k+. I keep my cars till there just about dead "being a mechanic I know just when that is" so after that it's worth scrap value.

It seems something can sit for 15-20 years and you will never need it or forget you have it. AS SOON as you sell it you need it and have to go buy another lmao, I see it a lot.

That's another reason I go threw my stuff and condense and rotate stock is I remember what I have for when I need it. If a job comes up I know where that kind of stuff is kept and will go there first.

One thing I find myself getting rid of often is random stock from projects, I take stuff back more now, I figure it might be years before I need a supply line for a toilet again so might as well take it back, home depot will always have it in stock if I need it later.

This has really helped with keeping the shop and basement neater and more organized. Only thing I really hoard is building materials, I have a lean to I stuff with useable wood, siding, roofing ext, job site left overs ext, I'm in there all the time hunting for stuff and it saves me from buying new.

That reminds me, I need to get back to buying up used chainlink fence, it's fantastic for cattle, I made a 470ft run all one piece of 4-5ft tall chainlink with T-Post and a single string of barbed wire 6in above the chainlink, not one issue with cattle escaping and I didn't have to fool with or rely on electric to keep them in. I should get a easy 15 maintenance free years out of that fence. I think I have about $500 in it total with 8ft Tpost sunk 2ft down and spaced 8ft apart. I planned to add a hot wire but decided what I had was good enough for cattle out on pasture.

My neighbor uses only electric strung on little rods, he's retired and home all the time but his cattle have gotten out 5 times this past year that I know of, twice into my pasture with my cattle. The fence between him and me isn't the best lol. my cattle have never wanted to get over to his pasture. mine get a unlimited amount of hay via round bales, he limits his and feeds with square bales. In his defense, his are bred heifers and a bull where mine are steers for beef, his have already bulked up where mine are still growing. But for as much labor my fence was to put in, it's maintenance free, idk why he still fools around with the temp electric fence like he does.

 

[newbury]

It seems something can sit for 15-20 years and you will never need it or forget you have it. AS SOON as you sell it you need it and have to go buy another lmao, I see it a lot.

That's another reason I go threw my stuff and condense and rotate stock is I remember what I have for when I need it. If a job comes up I know where that kind of stuff is kept and will go there first.

One thing I find myself getting rid of often is random stock from projects, I take stuff back more now, I figure it might be years before I need a supply line for a toilet again so might as well take it back, home depot will always have it in stock if I need it later.

This has really helped with keeping the shop and basement neater and more organized. Only thing I really hoard is building materials, I have a lean to I stuff with useable wood, siding, roofing ext, job site left overs ext, I'm in there all the time hunting for stuff and it saves me from buying new.<snip>

I too am a "hoarder", as was my Father and Grandfather before me. I am still using up nails and bolts my Grandfather saved up in Vermont in 1963. That stash only takes up about 4 cubic feet. I've probably an 8' wide, 4' deep, 2' high "storage" area for small plumbing supplies (I'm maintaining 3 houses and an apartment) and usually floats, valves, flappers etc. on hand so I can fix it promptly and then buy a replacement at my leisure.

I'm trying to force myself to keep my shops set up similar to a hardware store w/ different areas for the major type of stuff (plumbing, electrical, etc.).

I've usually about a dozen "projects" I'm working on and frequently find my self adapting items bought or found for one purpose to another purpose. One thing that gives me special pleasure is times like when I was visiting the MIL a few months ago and she burned out the end of an HD outside extension cord. For some unknown reason I happened to have a replacement in my car. I had needed 1 and bought two several years prior, and just never took the second one inside.

Or recently SWMBO needed a rolling pin (which she rarely uses). I just happened to have one down in the shop in a box I that had been sitting for 5 years.

I've found it's important to keep things 1 type/1 layer deep, separated on shelves, and pawed through occasionally to refresh my brain cells as to what I've got.

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

I too am a "hoarder", as was my Father and Grandfather before me. I am still using up nails and bolts my Grandfather saved up in Vermont in 1963. That stash only takes up about 4 cubic feet. I've probably an 8' wide, 4' deep, 2' high "storage" area for small plumbing supplies (I'm maintaining 3 houses and an apartment) and usually floats, valves, flappers etc. on hand so I can fix it promptly and then buy a replacement at my leisure.

I'm trying to force myself to keep my shops set up similar to a hardware store w/ different areas for the major type of stuff (plumbing, electrical, etc.).

I've usually about a dozen "projects" I'm working on and frequently find my self adapting items bought or found for one purpose to another purpose. One thing that gives me special pleasure is times like when I was visiting the MIL a few months ago and she burned out the end of an HD outside extension cord. For some unknown reason I happened to have a replacement in my car. I had needed 1 and bought two several years prior, and just never took the second one inside.

Or recently SWMBO needed a rolling pin (which she rarely uses). I just happened to have one down in the shop in a box I that had been sitting for 5 years.

I've found it's important to keep things 1 type/1 layer deep, separated on shelves, and pawed through occasionally to refresh my brain cells as to what I've got.

Knowing what you have is the most important thing, i don't care if your shop is as big as the mall of America, if you have to go out and buy something you already have and can't find, it makes all the "hoarding" irrelevant and pointless. Now useful stock is another thing. I did apartment maintenance for 6 months, was the only maintenance man for 120 units, when it comes to that, stock is very much needed.

I can take from what I learned there and apply that to my own shop, everything is relatively displayable and categorized, like you said, Plumbing, electrical ext ext. that way stuff you forgot about (nobody can remember every single thing in a shop) it can be found in the plumbing area ext.

I personally think organization and Categorizing stock is key. Same with tools, it's hard to know what tool is missing by looking at a huge pile of loose tools, I try to keep wrenches separate ext ext. if I lose a tool or it gets borrowed and not returned it pisses me off like no other, I hate having to rebuy a tool I already paid good money for that should last me 20+ years. Lol sorry about the rant lol.

 

[Garandman]

You will never complain that you have too much horsepower. You will however be unhappy with a tractor that doesn't have enough. This has cost a lot us on here a lot of money when we realized that we bought underpowered machines and took a bath trading them in on something bigger...

What tractor are you talking about? Because it sure seems they all have great resale value.

While you may not be able to have too much horsepower, you can get too large or heavy. In the woods and trails in NH wouldn't want anything bigger than the L3200. So far had to cut one log that was too heavy to lift 30" diameter) and I had to get it because the logger's 52hp Deere was too heavy to get it. Some of the boulders here weigh tons so they're not going anywhere....

 

[newbury]

<snip>
I personally think organization and Categorizing stock is key. Same with tools, it's hard to know what tool is missing by looking at a huge pile of loose tools, I try to keep wrenches separate ext ext. if I lose a tool or it gets borrowed and not returned it pisses me off like no other, I hate having to rebuy a tool I already paid good money for that should last me 20+ years. Lol sorry about the rant lol.

And if you have others "help" you it's important to have "return" areas so they can easily return tools. I've spent countless hours trying to track down tools after a VERY close relative (wife, son, daughter) borrowed a tool and returned it to the wrong place. I don't mind them borrowing the tool because they are generally fixing a problem so I don't have to fix it. But for example I "file" my pipe wrenches in the "plumbing department" but my son had a tendency to put them with "wrenches" in "general tools". So I've got several "dump" areas I for "returned" tools. I just have to sort them out occasionally.
But by having them "departmentalized" I'm able to be a 1,000 miles away and easily direct one of them to the area to look for the needed item and it will either be there or in the "return" box.

What tractor are you talking about? Because it sure seems they all have great resale value.

While you may not be able to have too much horsepower, you can get too large or heavy. In the woods and trails in NH wouldn't want anything bigger than the L3200. So far had to cut one log that was too heavy to lift 30" diameter) and I had to get it because the logger's 52hp Deere was too heavy to get it. Some of the boulders here weigh tons so they're not going anywhere....

And a lot depends on the jobs you want to do. I needed to be able to put a 20" diameter log 10' long on my sawmill to saw up for 9' boards. That log weighs about 1500 lbs. I couldn't cut the log shorter to save weight.

But at the same time I can't easily move my cousin-in-laws 90HP cabbed JD through my dense woods.
Or the guy that has to move round bales that weigh a ton. Cutting the bale up is possible but dramatically increases the effort to move the hay.

 

[IslandTractor]

And a lot depends on the jobs you want to do. I needed to be able to put a 20" diameter log 10' long on my sawmill to saw up for 9' boards. That log weighs about 1500 lbs. I couldn't cut the log shorter to save weight.

But at the same time I can't easily move my cousin-in-laws 90HP cabbed JD through my dense woods.
Or the guy that has to move round bales that weigh a ton. Cutting the bale up is possible but dramatically increases the effort to move the hay.

I agree with Garandman generally but would point out that for the task you mention in moving a good sized log, that loader capacity is more important than horsepower. Because B and L Kubotas are generally built to keep them light for mowing and therefore have relatively light front axles, they tend not to have as high capacity loaders as heavier Kioti and Mahindra tractors of the same horsepower.

Also, you don't need to be able to lift the log to full height so a loader that is rated for only 1400lbs can almost certainly lift a 1500lb log a couple feet off the ground for travel even if the load is a foot or so from the pivot point.

Horsepower isn't everything and folks who keep harping about "you can't have too much horsepower" are often not seeing the whole picture. Many tractors (I'm most familiar with Kioti) have a range of horsepower in the same frame size and typically the 40hp version can lift every bit as much as the 60 horsepower version. The loader and hydraulic pump specs as well as tractor weight and of course intended uses all need to be factored in too. Focusing only on horsepower is a newbie mistake.

 

[Roger66]

I bought the 25 hp Mahindra. I definitely feel I could appreciate some more hp. I have a very steep driveway and the middle range the engine Boggs way down going up that hill. Low range has a lot more power. I still think I made the right choice as the price and simplicity of the non emission engine and I think 25 hp is enough. More would definitely be better.

Any aftermarket tuners available for tractors?

 

[Egon]

Tractor choice does depend on more than engine size. One has to differentiate between pulling, rotating equipment and lifting abilities that will be required. The tractor choice may depend on which is considered most important.

Eg: high HP light tractor for mowing - lower HP heavy framed tractor for loader or backhoe - high HP heavy frame for ground engaging equipment.

 

[Roger66]

Tractor choice does depend on more than engine size. One has to differentiate between pulling, rotating equipment and lifting abilities that will be required. The tractor choice may depend on which is considered most important.

Eg: high HP light tractor for mowing - lower HP heavy framed tractor for loader or backhoe - high HP heavy frame for ground engaging equipment.

After having this a while now I'd definitely say if anyone is reading this post wondering if 25 HP is enough I'd say NO! Unless maybe you have a totally flat piece of property. On the other hand I also can't imagine having a DPF on a light use tractor! I use mine to pick stuff up move it or pull trailers around. I'd never be able to do a proper regen with my small piece of property. To be clear this tractor empty needs to be in low range to climb my driveway. My driveway is a bit steep, but nothing interesting. I think in hindsight I should have searched harder for a good used pre emissions higher HP tractor, but when I was looking there was nothing decent out there.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

After having this a while now I'd definitely say if anyone is reading this post wondering if 25 HP is enough I'd say NO! Unless maybe you have a totally flat piece of property. On the other hand I also can't imagine having a DPF on a light use tractor! I use mine to pick stuff up move it or pull trailers around. I'd never be able to do a proper regen with my small piece of property. To be clear this tractor empty needs to be in low range to climb my driveway. My driveway is a bit steep, but nothing interesting. I think in hindsight I should have searched harder for a good used pre emissions higher HP tractor, but when I was looking there was nothing decent out there.

See now I feel differently about this. I have driven home 4 different tractors (all HST)from my local dealer and have a decent hill that I have to go up to get to my place.

A 3550, would not go up the hill in high range, just wouldn't. :shocked:

A 1533, same thing, would not go up the hill in high range.

A 1526, went up in high range without even slowing down. :thumbsup:

A Max 26XL, went right up, but did slow just a little.

Yes I under stand how to use HST, let off the pedal to get more torque. On the 3550 and 1533 I did just that until they stopped, they simply would not pull the hill in high range. So I guess that the power to weight ratio is much lower on those machines. Took right off in mid range, but no deal in high.

Now I have also brought home a 2540 gear model, that thing was like a little rocket ship. Surprised the heck out of me how peppy it was.

Ultimately it comes down to what you want, are willing to pay for and or willing to compromise on.

All choices that we all have to make.

 

[Roger66]

A 1533, same thing, would not go up the hill in high range.

A 1526, went up in high range without even slowing down. :thumbsup:

A Max 26XL, went right up, but did slow just a little.

I'm surprised to hear of your results, the Max 26XL is lighter and has the same engine as the 1526! The 1533 is approximately the same size as the 1526 and has much more HP so should smoke the 1526 on a hill climb! This seems to be a case of common sense will not be tolerated!

My dealer had a nice level piece of property, so I couldn't get a feel for it on the test drive. Honestly as a first time buyer I had no idea what to really look for on the test drive. now with all of my experience, I would shop differently.

Mine seems to run perfectly, I have no reason to think there is any problem with the engine, but even dead empty no wheel weights, no back hoe, no implement or trailer. Even with a running start it absolutely will not climb my driveway in high range (Nice smooth paved driveway). In mid range it slows way down and feels like the engine is really struggling. Perhaps there is something wrong with mine?

 

[Turbys_1700]

My Yamnar YM 1700 had 20 HP at the engine and 17 at the PTO...
It was a light weight geared tractor and with loaded rears weighed 1800#...
It had no problem at all pulling a 5 foot rear finish mower...
Power to weight ratio was 90# per HP...

My New Holland 1720 weighed 3300# loaded and with the FEL was around 4000#...
It was rated at 28 HP and 23.5 at the PTO...
Power to weight ratio 143# per HP...
The 1720 would pull my 6' Woods RFM fine but in higher gears and faster speeds felt more labored than the Yanmar...

My Workmaster is north of 7K with the FEL and at 53 HP has a power to weight ratio of 132# per HP...
It does not labor at all pulling the 6' RFM...
On the road in high gear with the Brown 472 attached it will run in high gear but on steep inclines will load up a little...

Where am I going with all of this?
Power to weight ratio plays a significant part in how fast a tractor responds to throttle input...

True story...
My grandfather bought a new John Deere B in the 40's...
They were hard to get due to the war...
He was so proud of that tractor that when he got it he put it in the front yard for everybody to see...
Those old B's were rated around 12 HP at the draw bar at around 1K RPM's...
The Deere dealer at that time would turn the tractors down to 800 RPM's...
He believed that it would increase the engine life...
The first time my grandfather tried to pull the hill from his house with the combine the little B did not make it...
He was spittin mad...
My father turned it up and then the little B could pull the combine up the hill...
Wish I could have seen that episode...

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I'm surprised to hear of your results, the Max 26XL is lighter and has the same engine as the 1526! The 1533 is approximately the same size as the 1526 and has much more HP so should smoke the 1526 on a hill climb! This seems to be a case of common sense will not be tolerated!

My dealer had a nice level piece of property, so I couldn't get a feel for it on the test drive. Honestly as a first time buyer I had no idea what to really look for on the test drive. now with all of my experience, I would shop differently.

Mine seems to run perfectly, I have no reason to think there is any problem with the engine, but even dead empty no wheel weights, no back hoe, no implement or trailer. Even with a running start it absolutely will not climb my driveway in high range (Nice smooth paved driveway). In mid range it slows way down and feels like the engine is really struggling. Perhaps there is something wrong with mine?

As far as the results, the Max 26XL has different size tires, is a different weight and most likely has a different gear ratio.

For the 1533, over 700lbs heavier than the 1526.

When just looking, easy to over look these things.

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

The 1533 does have bigger tires, is heavier and if I remember correctly is wider than the 1526.

I did the math awhile back on this same discussion, people claimed the 1526 has a better power to weight ratio, I can't remember what it was exactly but the 1533 was about even and the 1538 was better weight to power wise.

But many guys have said the 1526 climbs hills better.

But my 4320 JD has 48hp and it VERY quickly bogs down in high gear if you push the peddle too fast, it needs to be rolling before you can push the peddle down. It's like starting a manual car in 4th gear, lots of engine and slow starts.

But I wouldn't be at all concerned with a tractor that can't climb a hill in high gear, that's not what high gear is made for.

I bought my tractor to do work and save my back not race up hills in high gear.

I personally would never attempt to climb a steep hill in high, I would gear down to mid range and not over stress the tractor.

 

[Roger66]

But I wouldn't be at all concerned with a tractor that can't climb a hill in high gear, that's not what high gear is made for.

I bought my tractor to do work and save my back not race up hills in high gear.

I personally would never attempt to climb a steep hill in high, I would gear down to mid range and not over stress the tractor.

Hi Broke farmer John,

Thanks for the reply, but I do strongly disagree with that statement. High gear is for traveling, traveling includes hills. if you want to drive over the road to another property you need to be in high gear. If it can't climb a hill you can't drive over the road. Even at max speed it's still a slow moving obstacle on the road, forget low range. I hoped to be able to drive this over to my brother in laws house less than 1 mile away, but no way with this thing. I think you guys are imaging some mountain I'm trying to climb, it's steep, but not that bad. It's nothing out of the ordinary and this tractor feels over stressed in mid range dead empty.

OK, but aside the hills and Living in New England this is hard to do. This winter my truck got stuck while snow plowing so I pulled it out with the tractor. The tractor was on level, plowed, but still wet slippery pavement in low range (no impliment or additional weight) trying to pull out the truck. On slippery pavement in low range with only 1 front and 1 rear drive wheel since my diff flock does not work. The tractor would stall or nearly stall trying to pull out the truck meaning even in low range this tractor on wet snowy pavement this tractor has more traction than power. It did finally get the job done, but this tractor is clearly under powered! As far as I'm concerned, you should never stall in low gear, the tires should spin first, ESPECIALLY in the SNOW! I'm also used to having lots of power, from my 73 Camaro, 5.7 Hemi Jeep, 7.3 Turbo diesel F350. Even my log splitter has a 300CI 6 cylinder engine, so perhaps My idea of enough power does not align with everyone.

All of that being said, I can totally deal with these limitations and I love having the tractor. I think it's the perfect size for my needs. Heavy enough to have some decent lift, but still super maneuverable for a small piece of property like mine. Just add a turbo and it'd be great! I would love to try a L2501 on my driveway or perhaps I don't want to!