How much HP ?

Kevin37 · Sep 8, 2003

What would be the minimum HP requirement to run a small square baler. Buying a new tractor and trying to look down the road at possible uses for the land. It's probably out of reach of where I want to be size and money-wise, but I've been told different things.

cowboydoc · Sep 8, 2003

It's not the hp but the size of the tractor that matter. If you're square baling you are probably going to have a hay rack as well. If you don't have a hay rack you can get by with a 40 something hp tractor. If you're planning on pulling a hayrack I would want to be in the 50 hp range.

Personally I wouldn't want to do much square baling with a compact tractor. I've done it with my 4600 but it whips it around quite a bit. Going up and down hills it wasn't alot of fun. You can certainly get by with less no doubt. But how important is safety to you?

RichNJKubota · Sep 8, 2003

My neighbor uses a Kubota L4310 (43 hp) to do his hay. Uses a discbine and then a powered rake and a NH baler. He drops the bales in the field and then picks them up and puts them on a wagon.
With a compact tractor you can not pull a baler and a wagon together. It'll jacknife on you and you'll be eating hay.
Another neighbor does about the same thing with a 30hp Kubota.
And another uses uses a IH H (28? hp) with a sickle bar, non-powered rake and a small old JD baler.
BTW - I'm looking for a baler in the NJ/PA area to run behined my L4310. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Rich

Kevin37 · Sep 8, 2003

This helps out knowing what some guys are actually doing. I was at a JD dealer today and was told not recommended with anything less then 50HP....way out of price-range of where I'll be buying. The field won't be that big so I was just planning on dropping them on the ground and then picking them up. No kicker-baler, and no baler pulling a wagon. Again...this is just trying to plan ahead prior to the tractor purchase so I know what capabilities will be. Thanks for the info!

cowboydoc · Sep 8, 2003

I completely agree with them. You shouldn't be baling with anything less than a 50 hp tractor. You can do it with less but like I said how important is your safety. I know I wouldn't bale again with my 4600 unless I absolutely had to. People do alot of things but if you're going to be baling on a regular basis spend the money and get a good utility tractor.

timb · Sep 9, 2003

Richard,

Now that you recently "test drove" the 5420 and 6415 - what are your thoughts now re the minimum tractor for running a small round baler (or square baler) with a 5000 series? It sounded like you ran out of hp grunt with the cab, A/C and big 557 - not necessarily out of tractor overall. I'm wondering if a 5220 (maybe a 5320 or possibly 5205) would be enough for a 4x4 round or typical square baler (w/o wagon) on reasonably level ground. The low-end 5000's don't seem to have all that much bigger footprint than the 4610/4710 but I'm wondering if they have just enough extra mass and power to make them reasonable choices to run the typical smalller, used ag equipment (all I could justify for most implements) you find around here in western PA. I really can't justify anything new bigger than the low 5000's but I do see a lot of advantages to them over the big end of the 4000's.

Tim

cowboydoc · Sep 9, 2003

Tim,

Based on what I know now I would go 10 hp over the mfg. recommded hp for that equipment. I've since found out that almost every tractor is the same with regard to hp in the utility series. If I was to buy a cab tractor I'd plan on 15 hp over the mfg. rec. MIN. hp for that piece of equipment.

You could probably get by with the smaller round balers, a 4x4 or such, but that's alot of bales to pick up. As far as square baling I think around 45-50 plus in a UTILITY tractor would be fine for square baling.

The biggest problem with haying is the weight. Perfect example. Monday a buddy is having some problems and I went over to help him get his hay baled. He's got a JD 4020 which is 90hp plus tractor. He's got a 535 baler which makes a 6x5 bale, we were only making 5x5's. Anyway I've helped him before and that tractor has never even come close to overheating. Well he recently put a loader on the tractor. With the extra weight of that loader going up and down hills it was all I could do shifting to lower and lower gears to keep it out of the red. Just the extra weight of the loader was too much for the tractor.

It's the same with these smaller tractors. You get too much weight, overheat, etc. They really weren't made for doing alot of things that people are doing with them. Guys are also having warranty denied because they are trying to do too much with too little tractor.

Soundguy · Sep 9, 2003

As you've seen, haying with a CUT is more or less not feasable.. though i had wondered about it myself, and as I own a 30something HP tractor, I was interested in the hobby aspect of haying. I did a web search and found a place that sells mini-balers... they are made for 30hp range tractors, and make small square bales, they also have a mini-round baler.. I'm guessing hte square baler makes a bale about 2/3 of normal, and the round baler about 1/2 of normal.. or less than 500# just looking at them... So it is possible... but the prices for the mini balers are not mini.... seemed to be the same price as the big boy toys.

Soundguy

slowrev · Sep 9, 2003

Soundguy,
Haying with a CUT is difficult, However not so with a small utility tractor. My friend used a 3900 lb 38 HP IH 444 to round bale and move 1,200 lb bales with no problem. He also square bales some for his calves in the barn during the winter. I guess the biggest problem with the CUT's is the weight.

rambler · Sep 10, 2003

I agree, I think I have seen 5 messages on various forums about baling & what hp tractor is required in the past week.

Hp is _not_ the issue. A small older baler only takes 17 hp to run, add 10 hp to pull it & the tractor through the field, and an IHC H or old Ford can bale with 30 hp or less.

I do all my square baling (5,000 bales/ year) with a NH square baler & an IH 300 - a souped up H with ~36 hp - and I pull a rack with 130 bales or a bale basket on hills.

I could _never_ do that with a 45 hp compact utility tractor. You need to have a real tractor on the front of a baler, not a compact. The baler is actually run by a flywheel which can push 50 hp to the bale chamber on peak. You need a real tractor with a robust drive train to handle this shock load - keeping that flywheel spinning with such a variable load.

Also the baler is heavy & has a lot of heavy motion - you need a good heavy cast iron tractor to aborb those motions.

This is not a hp question - it is a whole tractor question.

a compact tractor makes a real poor baler tractor for several reasons. Buy an old 35-50 hp real tractor for $2500 if you want to bale square bales.

As to round bales, you can make a 4x4 bale with 45 hp, but there is again the weight issue - you can have the tail wagging the dog. Think about the inertia of spinning an 800 lb ball of hay behind you in a 3000# baler & controling it.... with your 2800# tractor?

--->Paul

Kevin37 · Sep 10, 2003

Thanks for all the answers. I was just trying to speculate on possibilities for my property in the future.....baling would have been a nice to do thing...but I'll re-address it when the time comes. (Years?) I don't want to try it with the size tractor I'm shopping for. It makes sense that it's the size/weight of the tractor, even with a small square baler. I remember cutting, raking and baling hay when I was a kid working for the local farmers, but I never had a need to know the details of the equipment then. I just did what I was told!

timb · Sep 12, 2003

Just to be the instigator of trouble /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif (having taken to heart the infinitely more experienced words of Cowboydoc and Daryl re CUTs and Haying) - but did anyone reading this thread notice this photo that Typhoon posted in his collection of shots from the DuQuoin State Fair in Illinois?

(Brad - apologies for hijacking your shot-I didn't know how to point people to that one message in your thread)

What is Agco thinking?

That looks like an Agco ST hitched to that "little" Hesston 730 but I'll be danged if I can make out what model. The 730 weights only about 2800 lbs with a 500 lb tongue weight (empty) and maxes out at a 500lb bale. Wants 30 PTO hp. An interesting size - bigger than the tiny CUT-oriented balers but much smaller than the normal rounder. I would have liked to talk to the dealer showing that set up there to get his thoughts if that was realistic or a "stunt". I think the 730 is just an update to the 530 and I have seen them for sale (rarely) around here used for decent prices.

Tim

cowboydoc · Sep 12, 2003

Tim,

I dont' know what these guys are thinking to be honest with you. I see guys recommending it all the time. If you have perfectly flat ground, no hills at all, and make a small bale you could get by with it I suppose. I think it's dumb when you can buy a good older utility tractor for a couple thousand dollars to bale with and be completely safe and bale on hills but to each his own. Anybody that has ever baled before knows it's a royal pain to only bale with one tractor too.

slowrev · Sep 12, 2003

Yepper Coyboydoc. You need at least a 4,000 lb tractor to bale with. That is bare weight not counting loaded tires. Just my opinion of course /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

timb · Sep 12, 2003

FYI - Just for grins I had emailed JD with that specific question - "could a round baler the size of a Hesston 730 or a low-end square baler ala a JD 328 be used with a 4710?"

JD sent a very nice reply and didn't come right out and say you couldn't (or mention any warranty concerns), but said that the 4710 would "not be the model of choice" and strongly recommended going to a 5000 if you were planning any such work or "other light field work or tillage".

Tim

Phred · Sep 12, 2003

I once saw a guy pulling a 25 goose neck trailer and small dozer with a 3/4 ton truck.

Completely illegal, way over GVWR and over GCWR.

But he was pulling it just fine.
I did not see the attempt to stop it.........

That point is just because it might be technically possible to do something does not mean its smart.

Fred

cnoel · Sep 13, 2003

My dad just bought a new Heston in-line baler, not sure of the model. The in-line design makes it physically smaller than what I'm used to seeing, but it makes standard size small square bales. He started out pulling it with a Kubota L4330GST, but then needed it elsewhere and switched to an L2900GST (25HP at PTO). The 2900 handled it easily, and we have several other customers baling with L-series tractors. My dad's fields are all flat, you do want to make sure that you have enough tractor weight to handle the baler if you are going to be on the hills with it. Anyway, good luck. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gifChrista

timb · Sep 13, 2003

Good customer service, though - when I got home that night the same gent from JD headquarters who had responded via email had left a message on my answering machine - suggesting the same basic thing - I'd be better off with a 5000 series for baling.

Tim

cmsedore · Sep 14, 2003

I agree HP is not the issue. I pulled an older square baler with a ford 1700 (~2000lb/24 PTO HP). I did about 100 bales with it on a basically flat field, no wagon, just picked them up later.

I never had any problem with powering the baler or any problem with the baler 'wagging' the tractor.

I'm not saying I'd recommend it, but I have a really hard time seeing a problem pulling this with my Kubota L4610. The tractor weighs about 4500lbs (without the loader) and has 50% more PTO HP.

My brother-in-law pulls the same baler with a JD "B", which is in the 25HP range. I don't understand why something you can pull with a JD "B" can't be pulled with my L4610...

-Chris