How much tractor do I need?

[Schneeky]

Momma sez we're in for a new tractor here shortly. With the prices of these things (I've never had anything like that new) I don't wanna botch it up and not get enough tractor. This is mostly for residential use on our property, so getting it done quickly is not necessarily a priority. Although we are coastal and I hear there's plenty of opportunity to make some quick cash when bigger storms come thru.
Anyways, what I've got is a few acres of overgrown woods to clear and some dirt to push around. Dirt around here is pretty sandy and easy to work with, but I have a TON of those 1-3" saplings and sheets of vines to 'rassle. We've been looking at the ~30HP (L3031, MF1734, Mahindra 3016 etc.) tractors with a root grapple upgrade.
I've got chainsaws, chains and a Brushgrubber I've been using on the bigger stuff. I'm somewhat sure the tractors we're looking at are big enough to tote around piles of cleared brush and shuffle dirt around, but are these size units stout enough to knuckle up those saplings, big sweetbriar tubers and other such growth? And if not, what would get it done properly?
I'd rather have the advice of those that have BTDT than try and just guess at it. Thanks much.. d:^) Schneeks..

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Schneeky you did not say how many acres you have to get cleaned up but HP is not your only concern because weight is required to use the engine HP. A 30 HP tractor that is 70 years old may do 2x-3x of the pulling of a 30 HP import.

If the 3" saplings are a one time removal event you may look at renting/hiring for that one task.

Too much tractor can be a pain too if you open spaces are limited.

 

[Schneeky]

Schneeky you did not say how many acres you have to get cleaned up but HP is not your only concern because weight is required to use the engine HP. A 30 HP tractor that is 70 years old may do 2x-3x of the pulling of a 30 HP import.
If the 3" saplings are a one time removal event you may look at renting/hiring for that one task.
Too much tractor can be a pain too if you open spaces are limited.

I agree. Too big of a tractor would be less handy in tight spaces and it hasta fit in the garage. The L305 I picked up to get started is about a perfect physical size for the place best I can tell. But between the 2WD, straight gears and lack of a FEL it'd be the proverbial "elevator-in-an-outhouse" scenario tryin to make it work.
The property is only about 5 acres with prolly only a l'il more than 2 of those in this state. But there's a seemingly never ending list of piddly tractor work around here (and I wanna play with it, I'll admit it). I studied on just hiring it out, and have done that a bit. But they never get it all and I still end up with a bunch of work to be done. And I hafta wait till they can get to it. And it's more or less money out the window in my eyes. We heat with wood so I'm always shuffling around wood and brush piles from "donated" wood and such. The boats get moved around a bit. Boat motors come in on pallets. Yadda, yadda.
I was under the impression that "knuckling up" light rooted stuff like that would somewhat take the tractor weight issue out of play and it depended more on curl power. But I may be off my rocker.
For heavier pulling I get the 05 Dodge Cummins and log chains or the Brushgrubber after it.
Thanks for your response. d:^) Schneeks..

 

[Cherokee140]

Good question....and "need" is a good word. Sad to say you are going to have to take your best guess. Everyone on this board said I should have bought a larger machine, however the machine I bought has done everything I have "needed" it to do. This weekend it was too big as I bashed the backhoe into a tree trying to move around in the woods...scratched the cylinder on the boom and bent the crap out of the bracket that holds the "don't hit me" triangle. I will have to touch up the scratch. I have dug up trees that I could just get my arms around, moved tons of rock and dirt. Fixed my driveway and the gravel in front of one of my barns. Point is everyone may tell you that you "need" this or that, but till it is in your hands you will really not know. And I can say that a big machine may do the job faster...it may also not do the job at all. It can't do what you need it to do if it is too darn big to get where you need it. Small machines may look like toys, and many view them as toys(they never admit it), but they do real work. If you have rented an L305 and it has done everything you need it to do, will fit where you want it to fit then I think you have an idea. But remember that loader will be on there, and if you are taking down trees you might need a backhoe, I know with all the trees I have taken down (most the size of both fists together up to about 28", some bucket trees) you will want that backhoe. But keep in mind the overall length of anything you want to hang off of it, and keeping things inside. Nothing is harder on stuff then leaving it sit outside....it will get old real fast.

 

[Gary Fowler]

While it can be done, a FEL to pull out trees isn't the best tool. IF you can push them over so the root ball is uprooted, then the FEL can lift them out, but trying to lift them out with the FEL or even wrapping a chain and lifting is best done with the rear 3 PH. I removed many trees with the FEL on my old Yanmar 4220D by putting the FEL up high and pushing them over, then uprooting and pushing them to a pile. Some would uproot, but one snapped off and impaled the tractor. Luckily for me it went right between the front weight bracket so no damage, but I had to walk to the shop get my chainsaw and saw off the stub before I could get my tractor free. I could also use a long chain and yank the small trees out by attaching the chain to the drawbar. I found that attaching to the bucket hooks didn't work that well as it made me loose traction in the rear.

Now I use my backhoe to get out all the trees and bushes. It is much faster and neater as I can dig up the tree then refill the hole with the dirt because there is far less dirt on the root ball. If you can afford a TLB, even a small on like the BX25D can do a lot of tree removal quickly. I love the size of my B26 but they are really high dollar. I bought mine used 3 years old (only 60 hours) for a good price but it was still over $20K, about 2/3 the price of a new one. If you can afford a backhoe, get one with a hydraulic thumb as it really increases the use a lot. Think of the hoe like your hand without a thumb and how much more you can do with the opposable thumb vs just having 4 fingers.

 

[knukey]

I have a different perspective. A "few" acres once you get it cleared with grass growing is fairly easy to maintain. Quick cash from storms usually comes rarely in my experience. Why not get a local tree mulcher (grinds the trees to mulch) company or any clearing company for that matter to take the little trees out? Then the cheapest tractor that can handle a 5' implement will work great from then on.

 

[newbury]

tractor hasta fit in the garage.

The property is only about 5 acres with prolly only a l'il more than 2 of those in this state. But there's a seemingly never ending list of piddly tractor work around here (and I wanna play with it, I'll admit it)

If you are looking at NEW tractors virtually any of the 30HP or less offerings will do well. You need to get some seat time, figure what dealer will serve you best for the longest (many new dealers close shop after a couple of years).

IMHO buying new you are paying a lot for the warranty and the dealer.

I bought a 50HP tractor last year in Fairfax, Virginia.



It was a little bigger than I needed but the price was right.
I moved it to Fulton, Mississippi, where I'm retiring.
I've 4 shops.



With the canopy off it fits in the smallest shop on the right with about 2" of clearance. WHEW.

So measure accurately if it needs to fit in a garage, or plan on building a bigger garage.

 

[Schneeky]

Thanks much for all the replies, fellas.!!

newbury- I agree. I buy,sell and trade boats for a living. The thought of paying new prices for something is somewhat repulsive. But momma is an accounting major and sez we'll be better off with new as opposed to a "newer" used one from a financing perspective. The local Kubota, Massey, New Holland, LS and Mahindra dealers are established and solid. I bought the current L305 from the Massey dealer and they were very fair. Wholesaled it to me with a 30 day "if it don't work for ya trade it back in for full price t'wards something else" warranty. Hard to argue with that. Not sure what the policy is on new. Wanna check to see if they have a demo. The garage is huge, but the door is the limiting factor.

knukey- Hey man, quit it with that common sense and logic stuff would ya? I'm tryin to weasel my way into a new toy here! :laughing:
Some form of additional income, if it were to happen, would be gravy and not really necessary. Friends and neighbors are already sniffin around for work, tho'.

Gary- These are mostly a bunch of really small trees. I can about pry them up with a maddox in this sandy soil. The guy at EA.com said the Wicked Root Grapple should get it done with a 30HP class tractor. Had been tryin to avoid the extra expense of a backhoe in lieu of a more versatile implement. Although I can see the usefulness of it. For the bigger stuff the Dodge and the Brushgrubber giv'em a fit. After that, my tree man is in a boat building mood...

Cherokee140- I actually bought the L305 outright. Couldn't turn it down at the deal I got and have high confidence in making money off it when the new tractor arrives. Got several friends sniffin around it already. And it's the "physical size" reference I've been using for the current decision.
Called the EA guys this AM and they said the class tractor I was looking at would work nicely. They said that it worked great with the little Bobcat in the vid. Not really sure how much stock to put in that since they have something to sell. But I've read good things about their operation here and elsewhere. Push comes to shove they're in "choking distance" from here. With the cost of this stuff I'm tryin to take all the guess out of it I can. I know guys will let their testosterone levels interfere with sound judgement. 'Specially when it comes to power equipment. I'm just as guilty on occasion. d:^) Schneeks.

 

[TSO]

I think the 30 HP range would be just fine for you. I would just add to shop the "whole" tractor; Not all 30 HP tractors are built with the same strengths. Sounds like you'll be using the loader a bunch, so give a little extra attention to loader strength when you shop.

I've owned Kioti, LS, and Massey. So far the Massey has been the best in my experience, followed by LS then Kioti. My friend has had problems with 2 new Kubotas ... but then again, that may just be our own unique experiences.

Good luck!

 

[Schneeky]

I would just add to shop the "whole" tractor; Not all 30 HP tractors are built with the same strengths.

Thanks! That's about where I am now, I think. Is chasing down those details in the specs that make the difference for an intended use. Was just following a Kioti thread where they were talking about them being a heavier tractor with more lift in comparable classes. Read the same about the Mahindras elsewhere.
Concerning weight, for my uses I'm not concerned with the yard as I'm not a "yard guy". I run around with the Gravely and beat the weeds into submission so I can get to other stuff. Fire ant mounds around here make sharp blades a very temporary thing.
But being able to pry up these never-ending little sapligs, pull down sheets of vines, and shoving some dirt around do matter.
Talked to Momma a l'il earlier and we may be exploring an older used tractor with an FEL and takin the money from the sale of the current L305 to get an EA Wicked Root Grapple working on it. Much easier to stomach than losing $4-5k just for driving out of the dealer's driveway. We'll see. d:^) Schneeks.

PS- Can ya tell it's raining here today and I have nothing to do but obsess yet? :confused2: :laughing:

 

[TripleR]

Trouble is that any of us have owned/used tractors of all sizes could probably come up with not only a list of thirty or forty makes/models that "will work" and a few of us who own several tractors, still rent equipment occasionally. Weight, HP, hydraulics have been mentioned and all should be considered. I would add ground clearance into the equation as some tractors that might work great otherwise "can" be hampered by the low ground clearance of 7-8". In my woods, I need a minimum of 12" and have even bent the steps on our L5740 and M8540. On one of our other farms 7-8" is plenty.

Right now we own mostly Kubotas, but would still do as others recommend and look at all different brands, my brother has a Kioti I really like, my neighbor has a NH and one has a John Deere...:licking:

Good luck and try to get as long of a demo as possible; two of the last three tractors I bought pretty much underwhelmed me on the lot. Oh and I don't know how they do it, but they seem to shrink once you get then home, sometimes a good thing and sometimes not.

 

[Schneeky]

Trouble is that any of us have owned/used tractors of all sizes could probably come up with not only a list of thirty or forty makes/models that "will work" and a few of us who own several tractors, still rent equipment occasionally.
Oh and I don't know how they do it, but they seem to shrink once you get then home, sometimes a good thing and sometimes not.

Boats are like that as well. They tend to shrink once in the water.

The rental thing is a good point I hadn't thought about. Was thinking either/or. And the rentals I've seen around here here only come with a standard loader. If a unit is "big enough" to do 90% of the stuff I need/want to get done around here, a day-r-two long rental of a beefier unit using my implements may be the ticket for a) saving money up front, and b) not constantly carting around more "beef" than I need to for the plethora of little jobs around here.
First question being what are my chances of renting a tractor with forward hydraulic controls for that root grapple?

Hmmmmm.. More head-scratching ensues. d:^) Schneeks..

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Every time I think our 60 HP heavy MF 265 is too big I wind up using all it has.

I think small is fine until you own more weight and HP.

 

[Cherokee140]

Every time I think our 60 HP heavy MF 265 is too big I wind up using all it has.

I think small is fine until you own more weight and HP.

And our big tractor has not moved in 3 months....starting to wonder why I still keep it....bet the battery is stone cold dead.

If you don't need something that big you don't need it.

 

[TripleR]

Yeah, you need what you need, we own eleven tractors I think from a 22HP SCUT to 85HP UT and need every one of them at one time or another; used three on one job not long ago. One time I left the house with my lovely wife to buy a Kubota B2920 and came home with a BX2660 and another time I went to buy a 30-35HP open station and came home with a 50HP cab, both were not what I thought I needed, but turned out to be the right choice.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

And our big tractor has not moved in 3 months....starting to wonder why I still keep it....bet the battery is stone cold dead.

If you don't need something that big you don't need it.

Well our 265 MF can go three months without moving and it will need a new battery about every five years to start on demand.

In our case the on the hills and in the swappy areas sometimes we need the weight on the hills and speed and power to keep moving in the soft spots. With it we can drive through a ditch that would hang a red belly ford with nothing hitched to it plus it has a ROPS and a seat belt even being a 1976.

I grew up on 600-800 series Fords. Personally I had prefer one size too large than one size to small. Ground clearance and weight are more important to me than HP because one can always gear down.

If our place was flat ground and there was no reclaiming of land involved I would be more interested in a over size lawn mower like many of the CUTS I see being used I expect. Moving a .5+ yard of dirt or gravel with a 8' heavy box blade takes a heavy tractor for example.

Growing up on the farm we were always short on tractor HP and weight so I may be over compensating.

 

[Schneeky]

Checked with the local rental places. None of them have a FEL equipped tractor with forward hydraulics.
Got a coupla land clearing guys comin by to give estimates on getting it done. Not holding my breath on reasonable quotes, but wanna get the info anyways. If that were to be a viable option, a smaller tractor may meet my needs.
And back on the whole "size matters" meme, checked with the Safeway Mahindra and they said they would do a demo, but no way to try out a root grapple.
Not sure I've seen enough significant difference in prices to warrant going outside the big 3 except for the fact that it looks like you can get a somewhat beefier unit for nearly the same money. Not sure how that plays against resale values on down the line.
Looks like it'll hafta be a best guess. And if the already ludicrous prices on new units wasn't enough, they're saying the Tier4 units coming out now are going to be substantially higher than the Tier3's. And I'll be curious to see what kindof grief comes with that new regulatory BS that never seems to help anything but somebody's bottom line. Don't wanna end up with the "Microsoft Vista" version of a tractor.

The bigger, slightly older used units are starting to look better if the financing isn't too brutal. d:^) Schneeks.

 

[Gary Fowler]

If looking at used, look at the B25 or B 26 TLB. The B25 I have seen for as little as $10K with around 1000 hours on them which isn't that much if it was for personal use and not rental units. These are 25-26 engine HP but will out perform a 30 HP easily due to the weight. My B26TLB weighs 4000 pounds compared to about 1500 for a comparably sized and HP rated B26XX series. The only drawback (if one considers it a drawback) is that the FEL frame doesn't remove, only the QA bucket can be taken off and some wont come with the 3 PH pieces which are rather expensive to buy separately.
Check around, you may find a really nice one cheaper than a new tractor alone. I got my 2009 in 2012 for $20.5K with 3 PH and only 68 hours on the clock, lots of that was using a shredder and it was always stored inside so it looked brand new. NOW with 317 hours on it, it no longer looks new from pushing thru the thickets, briar patches etc but still works great. I just finished up the yearly oil change a couple hours ago.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

The bigger, slightly older used units are starting to look better if the financing isn't too brutal. d:^) Schneeks.

For those of us who can eat without owning a tractor to make our living your statement really rings true. If we can find something that will do WITHOUT requiring any financing then tractor ownership can really be a fun thing.

Old iron can have some upkeep costs from time to time but there is typically no asset depreciation.

Paying one to clear the land is a one time expense and can lessen your tractor needs like forever.

It is a best guess thing in the end and no one can make that final best guess for you but Gary makes some good points.

 

[Schneeky]

For those of us who can eat without owning a tractor to make our living your statement really rings true. If we can find something that will do WITHOUT requiring any financing then tractor ownership can really be a fun thing.

Old iron can have some upkeep costs from time to time but there is typically no asset depreciation.

Paying one to clear the land is a one time expense and can lessen your tractor needs like forever.

It is a best guess thing in the end and no one can make that final best guess for you but Gary makes some good points.

There you guys go with that common sense and logic again. Have y'all been talkin to my ol' lady? :laughing:
Got the local guy comin this week sometime to give me an estimate.

The current "old iron" around here is almost certain to make me a few bucks or so when I sell it from what I've seen. "Asset depreciation" has been a real stickler for me on these new rigs. Once the paper's signed, I'm stuck with it for a few years one way or the other. I'd like to think my buying skills are enough that I can get in a decent used unit for what I can get out of it. Making that deal a lot more flexable.

Gary- Will look into those. Not sure how they differ besides HP, but my old B2200 seemed a l'il light in the pants to me even back then with no heavy work. And not sure on the backhoe. But if priced right and capable, definitely a consideration. d:^) Schneeks..