HST pedals: rocker or separate?

[rScotty]

I have a Kubota 3400 with the treadle pedal and for the most part love it. But as always there is a but. We own a marina and use this tractor extensively for moving boats around our facility. When using the tractor a lot like eight to ten hours a day in spring when the boats are going out and now in the fall when the boats are coming back,,,,,,,, the positioning of my foot on the pedal when backing really stresses the right knee thus causing great pain and swelling during the busy season. You may never use your unit as long at one time as I do but you mention arthritis so you might want to try before you buy to make sure it doesn't bother the old joints

I agree. The separate controls like JD has are a lot easier on my old joints than the Kubota treadle rocker is. When I was younger it wouldn't have made a difference, but reaching out sideways to work the Kubota rocker makes my knee and hip hurt. Thinking about it though..... It isn't the rocker so much as the weird position that Kubota's rocker position forces the operator into because the brakes take up the space where the rocker ought to be. Seems odd that Kubota doesn't offer a change-over kit for putting the brakes on the proper side to use them as wheel brakes just as all other tractors do.

But then Kubota doesn't spend much energy on fitting western ergonomics. On my M59 the seat swivels around to use the backhoe.....but there is a large handbrake on a heavy bracket that is welded to the floor boards right where your feet have to go to swivel around. It would have been simple to mount the handbrake on the other side of the seat, but as is, you can swivel the seat, and swivel your torso just fine. But actually turning around requires double-jointed ankles and feet. Hmm.....you know something? That's similar in a way to the ergonomic mistake they made positioning the HST treadle rocker. I wonder if the two mistakes are connected? And if either one is connected with the fact that the seat is a little low?
rScotty

 

[JerryK]

Someday, Orange will come to it's senses ... then their followers will 'love' the NEW two pedal design....with the two NEW left sided steering brake pedals where they belong [like on the JD/Mahindra/NH-Case/etc,] ... [ Heh, it's a slow day ]

 

[TripleR]

Seems odd that Kubota doesn't offer a change-over kit for putting the brakes on the proper side to use them as wheel brakes just as all other tractors do.
rScotty

They can't as they would have to ditch the stupid clutch (my opinion only) which they seem unwilling to do.

Someday, Orange will come to it's senses ... then their followers will 'love' the NEW two pedal design....with the two NEW left sided steering brake pedals where they belong [like on the JD/Mahindra/NH-Case/etc,] ... [ Heh, it's a slow day ]

Not me, we have both JD and Kubota and I HATE left foot brakes. I will just buy the last year model with right foot brakes.

 

[JerryK]

......AND..... why does Orange put TWO brake pedals on the right side of their HST tractors. Do you have to be in 'cruise mode' whilst you stomp down on one of the brakes to turn tightly....???? After all, that is mainly why tractors have two brakes. To assist keeping the rows straight while plowing and tight turns at the end of the rows. I can also do some fancy turns in the snow with my JD/rear snowblower in the winter...dragging the front tires around. [ still a slow day.... ]

 

[von-mil]

On my two-right-side brake model, I have found that it's possible to hit the left or right brake pedal and the HST at the same time by simply pressing on the HST with your heel instead of your toes and then use your toes to press the brake pedal.

 

[JerryK]

On my two-right-side brake model, I have found that it's possible to hit the left or right brake pedal and the HST at the same time by simply pressing on the HST with your heel instead of your toes and then use your toes to press the brake pedal.

I have done the same. Driven both treddle and dual pedal HST designs. Both are great..!! Just feels good to be a thick skinned Mahindra owner and stir up the thin skinned Orange guys once and awhile. Have to let the know that their exhaust smells just like any other diesel.... Have a great day...!!!!

 

[kiotiken]

......AND..... why does Orange put TWO brake pedals on the right side of their HST tractors. Do you have to be in 'cruise mode' whilst you stomp down on one of the brakes to turn tightly....???? After all, that is mainly why tractors have two brakes. To assist keeping the rows straight while plowing and tight turns at the end of the rows. I can also do some fancy turns in the snow with my JD/rear snowblower in the winter...dragging the front tires around. [ still a slow day.... ]

The "Other Orange" tractor guys take this stupidity one step further IMO. The two pedals are on the right side, but they pinned them together. Not sure what happens if you un pin them, I've always meant to try it out, but haven't bothered yet because I still only seem to have one right leg.

Last winter, before I had my Kioti, I used a JD to plow my rink. The two pedal set up on the left was perfect, I could turn the tractor on itself, as well as do the odd doughnut!

 

[TripleR]

I have yet to figure out why non Kubota owners are so bothered by the fact that Kubota owners like the way their tractors work. I would never even think of describing someone else's preference as "stupid"; certainly wouldn't take the time to go onto their brand forum and do it.

 

[chelydra]

I have yet to figure out why non Kubota owners are so bothered by the fact that Kubota owners like the way their tractors work. I would never even think of describing someone else's preference as "stupid"; certainly wouldn't take the time to go onto their brand forum and do it.

Combination of tribal loyalty and unbridled enthusiasm about their preferences? Heck, we all do it sometimes. But politeness is appreciated.

Personally, I think it's great that there are so many choices. I learned a long time ago that when there is just one combination of attributes available on a complex system, many or most of them will not be to my taste. Economics and marketing dictate that without customizability (pretty hard on a machine as integrated as a modern tractor), everything has to be built to the lowest common denominator. So in the US, it's almost impossible to rent a car w/o auto transmission, a power tool without every possible safety inconvenience - a chainsaw without a low-kickback loop or an extension cord with fewer than four or five UL-type tags and warnings.

I do think that these complaints may be a useful source of feedback to manufacturers, who can adopt or adapt each others' best practices while developing their own innovations. But once I found that alternating driving sides when traveling abroad was easy, and heard that pilots have no trouble switching between US/UK and French/Russian tail-rotor pedal directions, I decided that people are adaptable enough to work with anything. And when physical limitations make one system difficult, we can usually find another.

It reminds me of how much I disliked strawberry ice cream as a child. Then one day I realized that if chocolate and vanilla had never been invented, and "ice cream" meant "strawberry ice cream," I'd like the stuff just fine.

My assumption is that any group of engineers smart enough to build a construction machine will have worked hard to develop, test and refine each part of it, based on prior best practices. There is always more than one solution, and any given choice will seem awkward at first, and perhaps also later when compared with other solutions. Thank goodness for competition and the variety it brings. And - I'd still like the HST rocker pedal of a Kioti with the attachment convenience of a JD and the price of an LS. Oh, and I'd prefer it in burgundy or teal, with all fluid fills and drains easily accessible from the top or side.

-chelydra

 

[TripleR]

Combination of tribal loyalty and unbridled enthusiasm about their preferences? Heck, we all do it sometimes. But politeness is appreciated.

Personally, I think it's great that there are so many choices. I learned a long time ago that when there is just one combination of attributes available on a complex system, many or most of them will not be to my taste. Economics and marketing dictate that without customizability (pretty hard on a machine as integrated as a modern tractor), everything has to be built to the lowest common denominator. So in the US, it's almost impossible to rent a car w/o auto transmission, a power tool without every possible safety inconvenience - a chainsaw without a low-kickback loop or an extension cord with fewer than four or five UL-type tags and warnings.

I do think that these complaints may be a useful source of feedback to manufacturers, who can adopt or adapt each others' best practices while developing their own innovations. But once I found that alternating driving sides when traveling abroad was easy, and heard that pilots have no trouble switching between US/UK and French/Russian tail-rotor pedal directions, I decided that people are adaptable enough to work with anything. And when physical limitations make one system difficult, we can usually find another.

It reminds me of how much I disliked strawberry ice cream as a child. Then one day I realized that if chocolate and vanilla had never been invented, and "ice cream" meant "strawberry ice cream," I'd like the stuff just fine.

My assumption is that any group of engineers smart enough to build a construction machine will have worked hard to develop, test and refine each part of it, based on prior best practices. There is always more than one solution, and any given choice will seem awkward at first, and perhaps also later when compared with other solutions. Thank goodness for competition and the variety it brings. And - I'd still like the HST rocker pedal of a Kioti with the attachment convenience of a JD and the price of an LS. Oh, and I'd prefer it in burgundy or teal, with all fluid fills and drains easily accessible from the top or side.

-chelydra

For me, there is no way to excuse rude behavior and especially so in going on another forum to do so. I am glad people are happy with their choice as they should be having researched and bought accordingly, just have the courtesy to accept others have done the same and like their products because they fit the needs and not due to stupidity or brand loyalty.

I see also see something I like on most models and even a couple I don't on my own brands. I have posted favorably on just about every make out there and even forwarded posts/links on some Kioti models.

I have owned/own John Deere, Case, Ford, Kubota and Massey-Ferguson. I routinely recommend prospective buyers to look at and try out different makes and models before making a final decision.

As surprising as it may seem, I recently posted that when turning brakes are needed, brakes on the left like our renters JD 4610 were in my opinion easier to use. The fact that I don't like them does not negate their utility nor the fact that I and other Kubota owners like brakes on the right indicate stupidity or inexperience.

Yeah, for me the perfect tractor would be a combination of John Deere, Kubota, Kioti and TYM; not very familiar with Mahindra or LS.

 

[JerryK]

I, personally, came on this discussion thru the 'daily posts' and didn't even look at what 'forum area' it was in ...and the discusion started about tredle vs. individual HST pedals. I do not think that KiotiKen ment to be rude in any way...he just might have picked a better word. I will leave you 'treddle guys' alone, and slither off the Kuboti forum area..... Sorry [ but the thin skin comment stays... ]

 

[TripleR]

I, personally, came on this discussion thru the 'daily posts' and didn't even look at what 'forum area' it was in ...and the discussion started about treadle vs. individual HST pedals. I do not think that KiotiKen meant to be rude in any way...he just might have picked a better word. I will leave you 'treadle guys' alone, and slither off the Kuboti forum area..... Sorry [ but the thin skin comment stays... ]

Thin skinned people drive all colors of tractors, trucks etc., I remember a really long thread on Mahindra v John Deere and can't even remember how many Ford v Chevy v Dodge v Toyota and Yamaha v Honda v Kawasaki v Polaris.

I like what I bought or I wouldn't have bought it as I expect owners of other makes/models do. There are Kubota models I don't like as well as other makes and models I really like.

This thread has wandered all over the place, but I think the original post was not about side by side split HST, but split as in the difference in the BX2660 v BX2200 type.

I actually have all three types with a BX2660, L5030 and side by side John Deere; don't have a really strong preference one way or the other. I used a John Deere for many years before I bought our first Kubota.

I post on other threads too, but try to remain respectful.

 

[Deere Dude]

Personally, I'm lazy. I like the idea of planting my heal in one spot and resting my leg it in one position and letting the toes of the foot dance around on the pedals.:laughing: It works for me and is easy.

 

[TripleR]

Personally, I'm lazy. I like the idea of planting my heal in one spot and resting my leg it in one position and letting the toes of the foot dance around on the pedals.:laughing: It works for me and is easy.

There have been days when I was on and off our Kubota and John Deere and ease of use, is really a non issue with me. On my L5030, I can put my foot on the treadle and never move it just rocking toe and heel.

Interesting story, at least to me anyway. We had a BX2200, then a John Deere 2305 and then I decided to buy a BX2660. My wife really liked the BX2200 treadle and HST response, tolerated the John Deere and when I bought the BX2660, she HATED it and I liked it. After using it a few times, she prefers the BX2660 over all other designs. The 2660 is the split forward and reverse while the BX2200 was the solid treadle.

The solid treadle on the BX2200 bothered my knee due to the angle/location. The treadle on our L5030 is identical to the one on our BX2200, but with a different angle location and doesn't bother my knee. I do prefer the treadle on the L40 Series over the L30 Series. Many non Kubota owners do not realize that not all Kubota HST treadle/pedals are alike.

While I prefer the treadle, split and solid to side by side, it is not a strong preference and I can live with either.

 

[westbrooklawn]

I had a gear drive L3400. I had used my neighbor's HST John Deere, and decided I really wanted HST. I traded my 5 year old L3400 gear drive on a new L3400 HST. My first complaint was that the rocker pedal felt uncomfortable, and not anywhere near as functional as the JD dual pedal setup. I even had a post on here asking the same questions you are. Long story short... it took me about a week to get use to the rocker pedal, and now I love it. I think both setups are equally good... it's just what you are use to.

 

[crazyal]

Just checked yesterday and both my HST rocker and brake pedals work just fine where they are. I think I'll try them out for a few hours this weekend to make sure they still work OK. The things we right side brake pedal guys must go through to make sure our brakes and HST rocker pedal work as designed. Do you left side brake guys find yourself having to use your tractor as often as you can to make sure your pedals function as designed too?

 

[RobertN]

Yes, that is true. In my case, I like the left side brakes on my current NH, but wish it had the treadle HST that my old Kubota had.

Although, I wish I had my old Kubota still too; I just could not afford to have two... I still get to visit it though

I have owned/own John Deere, Case, Ford, Kubota and Massey-Ferguson. I routinely recommend prospective buyers to look at and try out different makes and models before making a final decision.

Yeah, for me the perfect tractor would be a combination of John Deere, Kubota, Kioti and TYM; not very familiar with Mahindra or LS.

 

[kiotiken]

For me, there is no way to excuse rude behavior and especially so in going on another forum to do so. I am glad people are happy with their choice as they should be having researched and bought accordingly, just have the courtesy to accept others have done the same and like their products because they fit the needs and not due to stupidity or brand loyalty.

I see also see something I like on most models and even a couple I don't on my own brands. I have posted favorably on just about every make out there and even forwarded posts/links on some Kioti models.

I have owned/own John Deere, Case, Ford, Kubota and Massey-Ferguson. I routinely recommend prospective buyers to look at and try out different makes and models before making a final decision.

As surprising as it may seem, I recently posted that when turning brakes are needed, brakes on the left like our renters JD 4610 were in my opinion easier to use. The fact that I don't like them does not negate their utility nor the fact that I and other Kubota owners like brakes on the right indicate stupidity or inexperience.

Yeah, for me the perfect tractor would be a combination of John Deere, Kubota, Kioti and TYM; not very familiar with Mahindra or LS.

TripleR,
My apologies if you've taken what I said to be rude, I in no way intended it to be that way. I usually read all comments in a thread, but admit this time, I only read the first couple and then skipped to the end. I was only picking up on the point that having the two pedal brake system on the right hand side is curious on a tractor with HST (maybe that's a distinction I should have made). It is very difficult, if not impossible to hit both the HST pedal and the proper brake pedal at the same time with the desired force on each pedal.

This is actually an issue I brought up with my dealer while going through the buying process. I also pointed out that on Kioti CK 30 tractors (I'm assuming the entire CK line), both pedals are pinned together and you can't push them independently. My dealer kind of agreed without saying much and said he wasn't really sure how you'd be able to use them. I'll look again, but my recollection is also that it would not be easy to unpin them, but I can't remember why. At this point, I'm not sure my tractor is even equiped with independent brakes.

As far as going on other peoples threads, I simply read the active threads for the day, and at the time, this one was at or near the top. I doubt I even knew which forum the thread was in when I commented.

I too would love to order my tractor from a list of features from every manufacturer, but I'm thrilled with the choice I made and can live with anything that isn't exactly how I'd like it.

Anyway, there was no slight intended towards Kubota owners or Kubota itself. Most anybody would agree, Kubota makes a kick *** tractor (If I had the money, I'd love to have yours for instance). I do like owning the "Other orange" underdog tractor, and enjoy trading the occasional good humoured jab with any other type of tractor owner, although in this case, non was intended.

 

[TripleR]

Yes, that is true. In my case, I like the left side brakes on my current NH, but wish it had the treadle HST that my old Kubota had.

Although, I wish I had my old Kubota still too; I just could not afford to have two... I still get to visit it though

It is funny what we like or dislike and to what we are indifferent; funnier even that sometimes it changes over time. There was a time in my life, I could see no real use for a 50 HP HST with a cab and yet now it is one of my favorite tractors. I actually was looking for an open station 32-35 HP open station when my wife talked me into buying it. After all, we had two SCUTs, a 72 HP open station a 80 HP Cabbed unit and some other older ones at another farm.

I saw no real "need" for a Hydraulic Shuttle Shift as I had used a Synchro Shuttle Shift quite successfully for 12 years even though I had to use my right foot to clutch and use the brakes. When the Case CX80 went toes up, I figured, what the heck and got a M8540 HDC and LOVE it.

TripleR,
My apologies if you've taken what I said to be rude, I in no way intended it to be that way. I usually read all comments in a thread, but admit this time, I only read the first couple and then skipped to the end. I was only picking up on the point that having the two pedal brake system on the right hand side is curious on a tractor with HST (maybe that's a distinction I should have made). It is very difficult, if not impossible to hit both the HST pedal and the proper brake pedal at the same time with the desired force on each pedal.

This is actually an issue I brought up with my dealer while going through the buying process. I also pointed out that on Kioti CK 30 tractors (I'm assuming the entire CK line), both pedals are pinned together and you can't push them independently. My dealer kind of agreed without saying much and said he wasn't really sure how you'd be able to use them. I'll look again, but my recollection is also that it would not be easy to unpin them, but I can't remember why. At this point, I'm not sure my tractor is even equiped with independent brakes.

As far as going on other peoples threads, I simply read the active threads for the day, and at the time, this one was at or near the top. I doubt I even knew which forum the thread was in when I commented.

I too would love to order my tractor from a list of features from every manufacturer, but I'm thrilled with the choice I made and can live with anything that isn't exactly how I'd like it.

Anyway, there was no slight intended towards Kubota owners or Kubota itself. Most anybody would agree, Kubota makes a kick *** tractor (If I had the money, I'd love to have yours for instance). I do like owning the "Other orange" underdog tractor, and enjoy trading the occasional good humoured jab with any other type of tractor owner, although in this case, non was intended.

Not a problem, perhaps I misunderstood you and apologize as well. These left/right brake issues always seem to create greater emotions than they should. I was really flamed on one some time ago and essentially accused of being ignorant, inexperienced and maybe un American because I did not embrace the regular use of steering brakes on an HST.

What I do with my HSTs seldom require bakes of any kind and certainly not for steering, so steering brakes are pretty much a non issue with me.

Why anyone would pin separate brakes together is a mystery to me and I sure would be inclined to separate them.

 

[k0ua]

Here is my 2 cents on the brake pedal thing and the HST pedal. I have the treadle pedal and love it, some do not, but in reading all these threads, I have come to realize that we could all probably get used to and love which ever setup we have. So many guys being sure that theirs is the best, must mean that it really doesn't matter that much which one you have as long as you are satisfied with it. As for the brakes, well here is what I think. I cannot very successfully operate the treadle pedal and a steering brake all with the right foot at the same time, and crossing the left foot over to operate the steering brake does not work well for me either. But using the cruise control while going forward and my right foot for brake steering works well the few times I actually need brake steering. I find that while I used brake steering all the time with my gear tractors, with the HST tractor, since directional changes are so quickly done, I just "see-saw" FWD/REV a couple of times if I cannot make a turn around an obstruction sharp enough. Brake steering still comes in handy when pushing snow, as there usually is not enough weight on the front tires to steer. So you would think I would prefer the brakes on the left,. well yes and no. What I would prefer, is a single brake on the right side that actuated both brakes simultanousley and 2 steering brakes on the left. I think there are a few tractors that have that, (some John Deere, and TYM) BUT I have a clutch over there on the left on my tractor, and that is a problem. The reason I don't want the brakes strictly on the left is because I am an emergency right foot braker. In other words when I am buzzing down the road and the neighbors child runs in front of me my right foot is going to look for a brake pedal over there! NOT on the left. So the concept of mixing and matching tractor brand good points seems like a good one to me. I cannot have everything, and I got what I got, and I like it, but it does have some shortcomings.

James K0UA