HST versus shuttle shift

[savedbyzero]

This forum, and the site in general is a wealth of information. That being said.
I am on the hunt for a bigger tractor than my current one. I have a 29HP w/shuttle shift. I am considering an HST. I have been told in hilly areas, which is what I have, the HST is a pain in the rears, also somewhat dangerous. I won't go into the speakers reasons. I am quite comfy with a SS trans, but would like to have the convenience of the HST.
Please...any thought would be helpful.
Thanks in advance.

 

[JRobyn]

Welcome to TBN!

For hilly areas, slick places, precision work, etc., etc., HST is the ONLY way to go (IMHO). Do a search on here on HST and you will find dozens of threads on this same topic!

- Jay

 

[Yankee Clipper]

Saved,

A hydro will run circles around any other kind of transmission if your primary use is PTO work - mowing, blowing snow, tilling, etc. If you are into heavy tillage, then you want a gear transmission with a shuttle. Or if all you are doing is dirt work (dig and carry cycles) then it is even money - hydro vs shuttle.

As for a hydro being dangerous on a hill, that is so much horse manure - the hydro in most modern tractors will have dynamic braking coming down the hill. The only tractor I know of that was a Nantucket sleigh ride to the bottom was the old Case Ingersoll and they had a retarder valve on some later models to brake them - otherwise, you best be holding on to the steering wheel with both hands!

Hydros are easy to operate and most people can master them in a matter of about an hour.

Given reasonable care and on time oil and filter changes, a hydro will last a long time and you will enjoy doing your chores becasue it is so easy to use.

Good luck!

 

[nolefan]

I recently purchased my first tractor and settled on the HST. One of the reasons was my experience with a hydrostatic transmission in my utility vehicle on my very steep, hilly terrain. There the transmission braking has proven to be a great feature. After 70 hours on my tractor, mainly brushcutting, I can tell you that I was very comfortable with the HST especially on steep inclines. In my opinion it would be safer since you are not using the clutch unless you are changing gear ranges. With a standard transmission, if you go to change gears into reverse or another gear and accidently forget to brake fully or miss the gear then there is more likelihood of freewheeling which can be dangerous, especially on hills. This is just my opinion from my limited experience and I am sure others may disagree.

 

[Richard]

East Tennessee here... (hilly)

Rented a Kubota L-35 for a weekend. It is/was a GST.

Little did I know when I was on a hillside and shifted between gears that when the machine went to change gears it would go through neutral and freewheel....

Scared the pants off me the first time it happened. After that I ended up having to absolutely MASH the brakes with all my weight to hold the machine on the slope while it changed gears. I might add...the slope wasn't THAT bad so it's not like I was trying to climb the Sears Tower or anything like that! (or what ever the Sears Tower is now called)

My backhoe has an electronic type shifter, probably much like your shuttle shift however mine does more of a 'click' like a turn signal rather than having to man handle the lever. I can move mine with my pinky finger quite easily.

Count me in the HST camp especially if you are on hills!!

 

[KB9UDE]

Check out the John Deere 4x20 series with a Power Reverser tranny. I would not trade mine for a HST... I am on my third PR and will buy another. I would love to have a factory cab JD but in this series the only trans avaliable is HST, so a no go for me...

John

John Deere 4000 Series Compact Utility Tractors

 

[timswi]

I agree with everyone here..On hills the dynamic braking is a godsend. Besides, if the wheels would begin to slip downhill, you can catch them up with a pedal bump. Not so on a gear machine, you just bounce along until you regain some ground.

 

[dex3361]

I have an L4400 HST and I got it because of working on the hills. I was told the same thing as you about haow dangerous they were on the hills. Dont buy that for a minute, an hst is the machine to have on the hills for the reasons stated above. I rarely use my brakes in any situation if I lift my foot the tractor stops. I will give this warning when you shut your tractor off on the hills set and lock the brakes. The tractor can creep forward and empty the hydraulic oil out of the hst pump/motor and then supposedly the tractor can freewheel. I have never had this happen to me and I always set the brake on any tractor geared or hst when shutting down and getting off the tractor on a hill. I have owned both geared and hst for years and the most useful for me and what I do (bush hogging, FEL work, and dragging logs). I feel for these uses a hst is by no means unsafe on the hills.

 

[RadarTech]

Savedbyzero,
While I can't comment on the JD with the power reverser tranny, I can comment on the HST with steep hills.

Our driveway is so steep that in heavy rain we must use 4x4 or in some good conditions front wheel drive cars.

With that said, HST has been great..
ONLY once have I ever had an issue. That was in cold weather, no snow, that my jacket was open and hooked the gear range shift. when I changed directions and turned to my right to back up it pulled me into neutral.

I was pointed downhill, and was backing up. hit the brakes and pushed the bucket down and got stopped. Then I promptly zipped the jacket up....


as for everything else-- I test drove shuttle, gear, and HST. And I would never do to shuttle or gear, especially with a loader.....

But as always... YMMV..


J

 

[Builder]

I have no problems doing loader work with a shuttle, but a hydro leaves more hands free for the bucket, steering, etc. I also dislike the whining & moaning sounds of the HST.

Other than that the big thing to watch when buying an HST is the pedal set-up. Some are better than others.

 

[CowwFace]

Hey SaveBZ,

I'm a noobe to tractors myself, but I'll throw in my 2 cents. I went with a HST tractor, and I did my first road grading project with it.. only took me three days to get the road done?

I really liked the HST transmission myself. One thing I thought was pretty silly when I was looking at the tractor was the "cruise control" for the HST .. come on cruise control on a tractor.. Well I used the cruise control quite a bit on my first project ... so I would recommend HST with cruise.

A few things I can think of off of the top of my head I liked:

1. I liked the fact that at the end of my road, (intersection with more busy road) if there was a car coming and I was slightly in the road, I just had to lift the rear blade and press one pedal to get out of the way.

2. Back draging with the front end loader was nice, when I wanted to quickly go foward to re-touch a little ridge I just had to lift bucket and press one pedal.

3. Making the turn around at the end of a pass was pretty sweet. Even on the narrow road, I could do a three point turn around quickly.

I agree with the pedal placement mentioned above. I was used to forklift with heal-reverse / toe-foward .. so the Kioti 2 pedal's side-by-side took some getting used to but not terrible. I also had to take my seat out and drill a lower adjustment hole in the slide so I could reach the pedals more comfortably.

Overall I think I would go HST again for the way I'm going to use this tractor.

Hope this helps,
Phill

 

[rtimgray]

I also dislike the whining & moaning sounds of the HST.

QUOTE]

I think that I just realized that my wife is an HST model.

Shoulda gone shuttle shift.

 

[scott_vt]

Little did I know when I was on a hillside and shifted between gears that when the machine went to change gears it would go through neutral and freewheel....

Scared the pants off me the first time it happened. After that I ended up having to absolutely MASH the brakes with all my weight to hold the machine on the slope while it changed gears. I might add...the slope wasn't THAT bad so it's not like I was trying to climb the Sears Tower or anything like that! (or what ever the Sears Tower is now called)

!!

Good Mornin Richard,
As any truck driver will tell you, whatever gear you use to go up the hill, your probablly going to go down the hill in that gear ! Your certainly not going to change gears in the middle of the hill !

Im not going to get into the hydro/ gear debate again, even though Im a gear guy, but if your going to use a geared machine use it the right way... jmo !

 

[Richard]

Good Mornin Richard,
As any truck driver will tell you, whatever gear you use to go up the hill, your probablly going to go down the hill in that gear ! Your certainly not going to change gears in the middle of the hill !

Im not going to get into the hydro/ gear debate again, even though Im a gear guy, but if your going to use a geared machine use it the right way... jmo !

I understand... I actually gave a wrong recollection. It was using forward/backward as I think more about it. Anytime the machine changed directions (or gears) it went through the clutching process. I simply didn't think beforehand what might happen as it clutched. It only took once. I was still forced to operate F/R so had to deal with that situation. It was a fairly new machine as well and I was amazed at how hard it was to hold the machine in place with the brakes. Made me wonder if they were adjusted properly. I was holding onto the steering wheel to use that additional leverage to add some strength to my foot pressure.

Regardless... it wasn't gear changes per se' but rather, simply using the machine as designed

 

[scott_vt]

I understand... I actually gave a wrong recollection. It was using forward/backward as I think more about it. Anytime the machine changed directions (or gears) it went through the clutching process. I simply didn't think beforehand what might happen as it clutched. It only took once. I was still forced to operate F/R so had to deal with that situation. It was a fairly new machine as well and I was amazed at how hard it was to hold the machine in place with the brakes. d

Good Afternoon Richard,
Well yes in that scenario, thats a bit different than shifting on the fly going down a steep hill !


With the tractor stopped, going from foward to reverse on a hill is no big deal, unless the brakes are of questionable operating quality ! In that situation, they would get my attention rather quickly also !

In the end you were not injured, thats all that really matters !

 

[Ken45101]

FWIW, my smaller tractors (B21 TLB, B2710) have HST, my bigger tractors have standard transmissions with shuttle shift.

We are in very hilly terrain and I've never had a problem with either transmission type on the hills although I suspect the HST drains more power from the smaller units than a standard transmission (the B21 is very slow coming up the driveway but it's only a 20 HP unit.

Ken

 

[Builder]

I think you're right on the power drain. My 47HP hydro seems to be no more powerful than my 39HP shuttle shift was.

One other disadvantage is PTO HP. PTO HP on a hydro is typically lower than on a shuttle by 1-3 HP. Doesn't seem like much until you're a few HP short of buying that one implement you always wanted.

 

[CrownHawg]

Check out the John Deere 4x20 series with a Power Reverser tranny. I would not trade mine for a HST... I am on my third PR and will buy another. I would love to have a factory cab JD but in this series the only trans avaliable is HST, so a no go for me...

John

Well, I guess JD make both HST and PR for a reason. I cannot comment on the PR but I have driven both geared tractors and my 4120 HST. When I was looking at CUTs, I drove both and absolutely fell in love with the HST, on the JD. The Kubota was a little different, but still better than Shuttle Shift IMO. The HST make me so much SAFER by not having to concentrate on shifting, forward or reverse or a clutch. I too thought the side by side setup would be confusing but after a few uses, it's second nature. I catch myself scooting my foot right in my truck to backup!

 

[anojones]

I catch myself scooting my foot right in my truck to backup!

Just make sure you put it in Park before you jump out!

 

[mcd176]

I agree with BUILDER, the whine of a HST is Irritating plus the power drain is also a big factor, I have drove identical NH TC29's one with HST and one with gears, the geared machine has a noticable power advantage. I also disagree that a HST machine is better than a geared machine, this is just my .02 worth but in my opinion you are better off with gears in a CUT or UT, I can run my loader just fine with a shuttle shift.

-Mike