HST vs shuttle

[goeduck]

I don't see any homeowner tasks benefiting from gears, but to each their own.

Why do some people prefer shifting over HST in close quarters in the woods? I find myself constantly changing speeds and direction when finagling trees from between other trees in the woods with the tractor, and controlling speed and direction with my feet/foot (depending on machine) while keeping one hand on the steering wheel and the other on the joystick or 3pt controls.

Having to constantly move a hand from one control to the other becomes tedious, and then you have:

clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward,clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward, clutch, shift forward, clutch, shift backward......
all day long.... no thanks.

Why would I push in the clutch on my geared tractor? Seems that would be a pain in the knee. Quality geared tractors may have a clutch for convenience as do some HSTs but you do not need to use it to change directions. Moving my fwd/rev lever is about the same effort as changing my foot position. I have and like both systems but clearly there are HST operators on here that do not understand geared tractors.

 

[tman1020]

That's on THAT list?

HST wins on grass mowing IF you have a lot of things to mow around. The blade noise drowns out the hydro whine!

As for snow plowing, in the cold you are suppose to let the hydro warm up, for as much as half hour! In many cases, I'll be getting done in half hour with my gear tractor! lol

Loader work, I don't find a shuttle to be any harder to use than a hydro...

Dragging logs, I MUCH prefer a gear trans!! Gear drive is the hands down winner here...

I HATE hydro whine, I don't like all the heat they make and I hate the extra cost for maintenance! and that's after the extra you have to pay to get one! I also don't like the power they rob from the pto...

SR

Not all hydros whine bad. I have had 4 and only noticed it on one of them.

 

[tman1020]

Never owned or operated a power shuttle / reverser but had a manual shuttle shifter. It’s was NOT better than any hydro I have ever owned or used. And that goes for every task that you can think of. It was slightly better than my std gear drives.
I can see where some have a hard time appreciating hydro if you have many years accustomed to gear. Things like having to run at higher rpms and the relief pressure cutting out before loss of traction are hard to get used to. Plus if you have whine that would get annoying. But for me hydro has been massively better for all of my tasks.

 

[rScotty]

I have a HST & a shuttle and find the HST has more dependable "gear down" than the shuttle when going up or down or across hillsides. Particularly when things are icy on a sidehill, the HST works almost as good as an old fashioned standard gear drive machine.
rScotty

 

[aczlan]

I agree. Hydro much better and safer for dragging. Nice easy precise starts and no clutching or lose of momentum to change speed.

That is one downside to the GST in the L3830, it puts the tractor in "neutral" for a second when changing gears which is sometimes a problem.

Aaron Z

 

[ovrszd]

That is one downside to the GST in the L3830, it puts the tractor in "neutral" for a second when changing gears which is sometimes a problem.

Aaron Z

Wish I knew someone with a GST. I'd like to run one for the e,perience.

 

[MossRoad]

Wish I knew someone with a GST. I'd like to run one for the e,perience.

Go down to a dealer and take a test drive. I know, you're wasting a salesman's time, and you can't often tell what a machine will do with no load on it, but it might be a good way to get your hands on it.

 

[3Lfarms]

I know the safety police will freak out, but a couple weeks ago I planted 100 wind break trees at the farm. After digging all the holes with the PHD, I got a bucket load of compost and started at the end of the row putting a couple shovels full in each hole. With the tractor idling in low range and first gear, while standing on the ground was able to move the power shuttle lever into forward. It motored along at a slow crawl while I shoveled compost. Worked great and saved me a ton of time and effort. Try that with an HST.

 

[MossRoad]

I can see my bucket from my seat. I'd have gotten corner fulls of compost, filled all the holes with the tractor, and never gotten off my seat. :laughing:

 

[4570Man]

That is one downside to the GST in the L3830, it puts the tractor in "neutral" for a second when changing gears which is sometimes a problem.

Aaron Z

My old 2550 was GST. It worked good. Far better than the lower end transmission option that requires clutch for forwards and reverse and has 1-4 hi/low. The GST had 1-8 and no clutch required except to engage pto. The biggest downside is the shift was slow leaving the tractor in neutral for a few seconds. Same problem with changing gears. I’ve never driven a shuttle shift tractor, but the forklifts and backhoes I’ve used shifted almost instantly.

 

[MossRoad]

I wondered about forklifts.... I've driven quite a few over the years. The smaller ones just had a lever on the column for forward-N-reverse, a brake pedal and a drive pedal. The largest ones (something like 20-30,000# lift) had a forward and reverse pedal, and a brake pedal, and that's it.

One had a 4 speed and a clutch.... that one sucked! :laughing: We had to load airplanes with a clutched forklift.... with no rubber pad on the clutch pedal, just bare, shiny metal. Caused some problems in the rain!

 

[4570Man]

We’ve got an ancient Clark with a clutch and yea it sucks. We’ve got a Cat that’s HST which I don’t like. It’s got the forward and reverse treadle pedal on the left and the gas pedal on the right and the brake in the middle. With no throttle set it requires constant use of both feet to operate. I like the ones with the shifter on the steering column a lot better with just a gas pedal and brake.

 

[MossRoad]

I don't care for one-foot treadles. My little Power Trac PT425 has a treadle, but it's mounted in the center, so right foot forward and left foot reverse. No brakes (does have a parking brake). I like it a lot. It's very easy to position on slopes and tight quarters. There's no time delay moving your foot from a right to left pedal. It all becomes a quite natural feel the more you operate it.

 

[4570Man]

I don’t have any problem with treadle pedals on tractors, but this forklift one is left foot operation only while requiring right foot to control RPMs.

 

[goeduck]

Way too much focus on the treadle/left-right pedal options. You get used to what you have in my opinion.

 

[MossRoad]

Way too much focus on the treadle/left-right pedal options. You get used to what you have in my opinion.

Yep... until you jump on another machine and it's different and you put an air-hose pass-through port in the side of your garage....

:laughing:

 

[ArlyA]

I agree!

Way too much focus on the treadle/left-right pedal options. You get used to what you have in my opinion.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Some of us have a lot more than ONE tractor, I don't like them all being different!

SR

 

[rScotty]

Way too much focus on the treadle/left-right pedal options. You get used to what you have in my opinion.

Yes, growing up working with lots of different machines teaches a person to tailor a set of reflexes for each machine.
So different controls were not a problem for those on the land, and still aren't. I could see it being a problem if there were identical machines with different controls, but that would be rare enough to be a warning all by itself.

But that's not to say that we kids didn't notice that everyone liked some control layouts better than others. We all agreed that JD controls were always a pleasure and a favorite. Summer time was harvest time and the days were long. Late at night laying in our cots in the barn we would talk about things like the new machines we had seen and generally wonder about the world. This was back in the 1950s & 60s. We knew about factories of course from pictures in school books, but nobody had ever been to one and we had only a vague idea of how they worked. About the people in them, we knew nothing. In fairness, we agreed that it was apparent that the folks in factories didn't actually know much about farming either.

Regardless of the kind of machine, the best were way ahead of the rest; it wasn't even close. JD was lots better at knowing what people on the land were looking for back then. We could tell that JD must somehow put more & better thought into placing the controls. What we couldn't figure out is why other brands didn't do the same. I think we concluded that it must be ignorance of some kind.

Gleaner/Baldwin was one of the worst. We concluded that in a lot of machines all the controls were awkward because the folks who made then were ignorant. They could hardly help being so, since as far as we ever knew nobody from any company ever asked the people who actually ran the machines how they liked the control layout.
But maybe JD did just that & if so maybe it explained why they were better. Or maybe the JD control person just happened to be an old farmboy of standard shape and size.

Now I haven't looked at control layout in years, and my machines are old enough that they don't count.
In fact, there may be other machines today that are even better than JD. I haven't looked at JD either since about the time they went to plastic fenders.
But I wonder, does JD still have a noticibly better control position layout than the other makes?
rScotty

 

[MossRoad]

When I was looking at compact tractors back around 2001, I had it narrowed down to a John Deere 4100HST, a Kubota BX2200, a New Holland TC21D, a Cub Cadet 7205 and a Power-Trac PT425.

The steering wheel on the JD was literally down between my legs. I didn't have enough room to sit on it and operate it comfortably. Arguably, the best ergonomics were on the NH TC21D. Man, that thing was a very, very comfortable machine to operate. Everything just seemed to be in the right place. The others had some issues I can no longer recall, and I ended up making my decision on the Power Trac for a variety of reasons. It had the most checks in the pros column on my pros and cons list.

Anyhow, my view of where things should be and how they should work is not always the best for anyone else, so as always, the best advice is to sit on as many machines as possible. Start them up, drive them around, do a bit of work with them, and see if they are a good fit for you.