HVAC Question

[jay3534]

I have a gas pack that is about to have the third coil replaced (do not know what coil ) due to leaking Freon. Is there something the contractor is doing wrong or better yet what should he be replacing? The manufacturer is giving us a problem.

Thanks

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

You either have a bad lineset or fitting. No way should you have to replace the coil (evaporator 'coil' if in the house, condenser if outside). Neither one should leak 2 times unless your beating on them. I just had my first issue with our gas system (A/C kept freezing up) after 22 years! It took 3 Lbs of freon to "top off" the system.

Something is leaking elsewhere.

 

[jaxs]

I have a gas pack that is about to have the third coil replaced (do not know what coil ) due to leaking Freon. Is there something the contractor is doing wrong or better yet what should he be replacing? The manufacturer is giving us a problem.

Thanks

The best technician on earth can not accurately answer those questions without being there in person. On the other hand,anyone with common sense know's your contractor is inept.

 

[Sigarms]

I have a gas pack that is about to have the third coil replaced (do not know what coil ) due to leaking Freon. Is there something the contractor is doing wrong or better yet what should he be replacing? The manufacturer is giving us a problem.

Thanks

Manufacturer, Model and serial number?

On a package unit, you actually have two different coils ("condenser coil" which is what you generally see along the outside of the package unit, along with the cooling coil, AKA generally found / called the "evaporator coil" under the package unit parts list).

How many times was the condenser coil changed?
Ho many times was the cooling coil changed?
Is the coil under warranty?
Is the contractor who is replacing the coil the one who installed the gas pack?
Do you have a copy of the start up sheet on the start of the unit everytime the coil was replaced?

Can you replace 3 coils on a package unit over a given amount of time? Yes. Question is what is the time frame and what coil.

All manufacturers have been known to have issues with brazing quality control. Generally the highest paid labor in the plant unless if it's robotics, and even then they can still have issues.

 

[jay3534]

Do not know which coil.
Yes to contractor who installed unit.
I understand it is the same coil that has been replaced twice before.
Warranty should be yes.
What is a start up sheet and should I have one? I have no paper work.
York and I am not at home to look at it.

Thanks

 

[Sigarms]

A start up sheet, AKA "commissioning" sheet is not always provided by the installing contractor. Long story short, it takes all the pertinant readings of the system to document it for future use if there is an ussue.

Something that generally any manufacturer has out there for their contractors to use because when you ask a guy on readings from the system, they generally tell you "good", which could mean 5 different things which don't really mean good. A good contractor IMO will always provide a copy of this sheet for documentation to cover his arse IMO. That said, a lot of HVAC contractors don't use actually use one because you actually have to take the time to fill everything out. That said, on a 3rd coil replacement, they should be using one because sooner or later the homeowner will be screaming for a new unit.

If it was the condensing coil, if you saw them do it, you'd recognize it as it's the coil that "wraps" around the exterior of the unit (which may be guarded by metal as well).

What year was the unit installed?
Model and serial?
What is the contractor charging you on labor to replace the 3rd coil (and what did they charge you on the previous two replacements?)

At this point in time, if installed within 10 years, you need to be documenting everything. I'm guessing the contractor isn't doing all of this for free and sooner or later you're going to want a new unit.

I'd guess it's either a Goodman or JCI package unit?

On a sidenote, a picture is worth a thousand words. Contractor should be taking pics.

 

[Sigarms]

I just had my first issue with our gas system (A/C kept freezing up) after 22 years! It took 3 Lbs of freon to "top off" the system.

Newsflash... The federal government is making it almost impossible per federal guidelines to keep equipment "simple" from HVAC manufacturers into consumers hands.

General rule, no matter what the equipment, the more parts needed to ensure the equipment is running, the more chances that a part may break, which causes a system failure. HVAC systems are a prime example of this rule.

Energy efficiency ratings keep increasing on HVAC systems per the federal government, you can only meet these ratings in so many ways.

This is why in the HVAC world, "lifetime compressor warranty" is pretty much a joke per people who know what they are doing in their profession, but it sounds good and helps sell systems.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

Yep, pretty much what Sigarms just said. The R-22 (old stuff and now is no longer produced) cost me $150 per pound. We were thinking of replacing the entire setup, but at 7X the price of fixing this one, my contractor said "use the old unit until it dies". Could be a year, could be 5+..... At least I know what's coming....

 

[kenmac]

Evap coils from every manufacturer have had issues

 

[kenmac]

Yep, pretty much what Sigarms just said. The R-22 (old stuff and now is no longer produced) cost me $150 per pound. ...

is that $1.50 per lb, or $150.00 per lb ?

 

[kenmac]

I'd guess it's either a Goodman or JCI package unit?

I've replaced evap in coils in all brands, Rheem, goodman, Trane, carrier, etc,.

 

[Sigarms]

is that $1.50 per lb, or $150.00 per lb ?

$150 per pound for R22 for service work being invoiced out would be my guess.

 

[Sigarms]

I've replaced evap in coils in all brands, Rheem, goodman, Trane, carrier, etc,.

Pretty much every manufacturer has had to settle on a class action lawsuite for leaking coils over the past couple of years (LONG story, does it really mean anything, no, lawyers basically settling out of court no better than financial blackmail if you try and fight it). Yes, I understand, everyone has issues. That said, remember York and their infamous blue coil? (would have nothing to do with a in warranty package unit). Reality is every manufacturer runs streaks where things go bad. Remember the reversing valve issue with a manufacturer where you had to look at the color of the selrnoid to determine if it was going to break? LOL

Since it was a package unit and the OP is from NC, there was a reason why I asked what I did. Just curiosity on my end.

If I sold a system and 3 different (of the same) coil leaked within 10 years, labor should be picked up by the manufacturer after the first leaking coil IMO even though the warranty only covers parts, not labor. Things break, but common sense will tell you either the contractor doesn't know what he'd doing (and on a coil replacement, don't think that is the case), or the manufacturer is having issues. Now, if you had a bad TXV, bad coil, and bad blower motor go out in the same system over a 10 year period, I wouldn't say that would be abnormal, just bad luck. 3 of the same coil is abnormal.