Hydraulic pump weak

[SPYDERLK]

If the pump is dead heading at startup you are going to have a hard time starting the tractor with the added load.

If the pump is deadheading you will blow the new pump, or a hose, if the engine starts. Expensive and/or dangerous experiment. Pressure must have a relief point. Get a hyd mechanic to check it out. You may have an extremely restricted/plugged line caused by an internal failure of a hose liner. If this hose is before the system relief valve it would have either blown the pump [one mode of which could cause the pump to bypass internally as would account for your heat in the existing pump], or blown the hose. Obviously the hose didnt blow.
larry

 

[lakespirit]

If all this is true, why does it work 99% of the time, even now?

 

[SPYDERLK]

If all this is true, why does it work 99% of the time, even now?

You said it was slow and weak. Define "working".
larry

 

[lakespirit]

When I first fire it up and it's cool, pretty good lift speed, nut still not tremendous lifting strength. Warmer it gets, the sloer and weaker she gets.

 

[lakespirit]

 

[greg_g]

Upgrade your pump to the recommended CB314. They don't cost nearly as much as the time you've already spent procrastinating. Assuming you've actually verified no other flow restrictions, $150 and a half hour's work - and you're done.

//greg//

 

[SPYDERLK]

When I first fire it up and it's cool, pretty good lift speed, nut still not tremendous lifting strength. Warmer it gets, the sloer and weaker she gets.

So, putting it together - thicker fluid alleviates the symptom - thicker fluid does not leak thru a bad seal or an off seat relief valve as easily. This gives you more pressure to work with until the fluid thins with heat. These things fit together nicely. Its possible that your pump just failed internally in some way that causes it to bypass the pressurized fluid back to the suction side. The thing is that you want to make sure to find and eliminate the root cause [which may be elsewhere in the hydraulics] so that it wont happen again.
larry

 

[greg_g]

Its possible that your pump just failed internally

Is it possible that you missed the part where Chip said the CB306 is simply undersized for a loader-equipped TS254C ? He's one of the guys that sells these TaiShans - and puts loaders on them - for a living

//greg//

 

[Soundguy]

Wow... I don't feel so bad on my ld fords now... the hundred series only has a 4gpm internal pump.. makes for a slow ( but usable ) laoder. I didn't realize anybody was building low gpm pumps still for tractors... glad to hear everything is not in overkill mode.

soundguy

The 306 pump is the basic pump used on tractors without front loaders. it is around 3gpm and will be slow under the best of conditions. We stock a 314 replacement that will speed things up, more than doubling the flow rate. This of course does not take into account any potential restriction in the system (often caused by mismatched quick connect fittings, etc).

 

[greg_g]

I didn't realize anybody was building low gpm pumps still for tractors...

Chip's really close on his estimate. The "6" in CB306 represents the "6ml per rotation", with max output at 2000 rpm. That's 12 liters/min or <3.2 gpm. That puts the CB310 around 5.3 gpm and the CB314 at ~7.4 gpm.

Once flow restrictions are positively eliminated, a CB314 should be a definite improvement to Jeff's tractor.

//greg//

 

[SPYDERLK]

Is it possible that you missed the part where Chip said the CB306 is simply undersized for a loader-equipped TS254C ?
//greg//

Yes, I did miss that. So that explains slow. I havnt gone back to check but I think he said the problem came on suddenly and the pump now gets hot. Could be it just wore out I guess.
larry

 

[bluechip]

The 306 is plenty for the 3 point alone, even with power steering. but is not too swift (literally) with the loader. we got 306s on our first load in 2003 and after koyker fitted the 160 loader for us, they recommended we ask the factory to fit a larger pump... the rest as they say... is history

 

[Eagleview]

Lakespirit.// Was it slow and weak from new with the original pump ?

 

[Soundguy]

The 306 is plenty for the 3 point alone, even with power steering. but is not too swift (literally) with the loader. we got 306s on our first load in 2003 and after koyker fitted the 160 loader for us, they recommended we ask the factory to fit a larger pump... the rest as they say... is history

I know what you mean.. all my ford loader tractors are 4gpm setups.. none too fast.. wouldn't want to use them in commercial applictions.. but for homeowner - powered wheelbarrow stuff.. they work great.

what are the breakout / full height lift specs on those machines anyway?

soundguy

 

[bluechip]

varies with loader manufacturer specs.

 

[Creekman]

Leave the 15-40 in it forever , there is nothing wrong with using it (and i did say if your sure it is worn out and just want to give it a little pep). We in Australia use it in everything , truck and tractor transmissions , engines , hydraulics and all , some manufacturers recomend it , ive never heard of a complaint . We would not be able to change gears with a 90 weight in our gearboxes on cold mornings so we all use 15-40 and on hot days 10w hydraulic oil losses it's viscosity so we use it in the hydraulics , Caterpillar dozers use it from one end to the other .

Just how cold does it get in Australia that you need to use 15W40 oil in your hydraulic systems? Here in the mid-west of the good old USA temperatures get down to below freezing and I have never had a problem with the hydraulics in my KAMA 354.

 

[Eagleview]

You may need to read my post again , i said 15w40 is for our HOT days in hydraulics not for the cold , as 10w loses it's viscosity when under extreme heat . And as ive posted before in other threads , 15w40 should only be used in warm climates as it is a little thick in extreme cold . But on worn machinery it can help to get a little more work out of it before it is rebuilt or scrapped . Now i said we use it for GEARBOX'S in cold weather as im sure your trucking guys also do because 90 becomes too thick and slows the gears in the box too quickly making gearshifts troublesome .

 

[Soundguy]

I'd never put plain engine oil in a gear box.. no EP properties.. UTF would be a better choice at near the same viscosity..

soundguy

 

[Eagleview]

The oil companies seem to think it's alright .

 

[Creekman]

Yo lakespirit,
I was brousing around other Chinese tractor forums last night and I came across another "lakespirit" with the same tractor as yours and the same problem with slow hydraulics. I forgot to write down the name of this site but I would like to ask if you are the same "lakespirit"? This "lakespirit" posted that his father was monkeying around with "lakespirits" tractor and that the father tightened down something that should not have been tightened down. When this "lakespirit" corrected his father's error the hydraulics worked just fine. Are you this "lakespirit" or is this an amazing coincidence?