Hydraulic safety valve and float valve install on bucket hydraulics...

[DaveOmak]

New to me 401B JD construction tractor... Loader bucket only...

I have concerns about hydraulic lines breaking and someone getting hurt...

I also want the bucket to "float" for winter snow removal..

Can I get some help with both of those things ???

Thanks for any help you can give...

Dave

 

[LD1]

In theory it "could" be done with some plumbing and valves. Basically feeding the cylinder with TWO separate circuits. One conventional.....and a one that allows the DPCV to function. But that would require mounting the DPVC some distance from the cylinder to allow the normal operation to bypass it. So it takes some safety out of the way the system was designed.

But its not really practical. Loaders are not designed to lift people, or have people work under them. Therefore they dont make loaders with the DPCV. Simply dont do stupid stuff and put yourself in harms way.

That said....I have been lifted in, and worked under a loader before. its a calculated risk....but a machine in good shape and hoses in good condition and rated to lift a ton or more....putting myself at ~200# in the bucket was never a concern.

I dont know the statistics....but I am sure there is alot higher percentage of accidents due to falling out of a loader....or banging a head into a raised loader, than there are from failing hydraulics

 

[DaveOmak]

In theory it "could" be done with some plumbing and valves. Basically feeding the cylinder with TWO separate circuits. One conventional.....and a one that allows the DPCV to function. But that would require mounting the DPVC some distance from the cylinder to allow the normal operation to bypass it. So it takes some safety out of the way the system was designed.

But its not really practical. Loaders are not designed to lift people, or have people work under them. Therefore they dont make loaders with the DPCV. Simply dont do stupid stuff and put yourself in harms way.

That said....I have been lifted in, and worked under a loader before. its a calculated risk....but a machine in good shape and hoses in good condition and rated to lift a ton or more....putting myself at ~200# in the bucket was never a concern.

I dont know the statistics....but I am sure there is alot higher percentage of accidents due to falling out of a loader....or banging a head into a raised loader, than there are from failing hydraulics

Not knowing when a hose may fail is my concern...

So, the "safety blocks" that are installed on some equipment are not a necessity ???

I believe in doing all one can to make one equipment safe... Look for things that will prevent accidents regardless of one's actions...

Can someone help me with safety blocks... installation etc...

 

[LD1]

Not knowing when a hose may fail is my concern...

So, the "safety blocks" that are installed on some equipment are not a necessity ???

I believe in doing all one can to make one equipment safe... Look for things that will prevent accidents regardless of one's actions...

Can someone help me with safety blocks... installation etc...

Not sure what you mean by "safety blocks"

IF you are talking about the hydraulic device called a DPCV (double pilot check valve)....then YES they are required on teh equimpent they are installed on. Like cranes, aerial lifts, bucket trucks, etc. Because they are designed to have people either hoisted in, or working under. A tractor is neither. A tractor, or construction equipment like loaders, excavators, etc do NOT have nor do they require a safety valve.

Many will have a MECHANICAL means of locking a boom for working on/under doing maintenance.

But if you are worried about the "what-ifs" to this level with a backhoe.....quite simply dont get under the loader when raised, and dont get in it and have someone raise you. Rent or purchase the correct piece of equipment.

 

[DaveOmak]

Thank you... "Pilot operated check valve" is the "REAL" name of the device I need help with... From what I have found on u-tube, "safety block" is the job site name...
If there is a leak in a hydraulic circuit, a "check" of the manufacturers design, closes the hydraulic circuit... A fail-safe device of sorts...

 

[oldnslo]

Depending on your capabilities or actual requirements you can install electric operated valves in the bucket lift circuit to lock it in position when de-energized and allow float when energized.

If you are working on a construction site the requirements could easily be different than a home owner working around their property.

 

[DaveOmak]

Sounds like the system you described will solve all my ideas...

Can you please link to the item you have described ??

 

[LD1]

It's not a "check" that closes if something fails.

Rather it's a valve that is NORMALLY closed and won't allow flow. It takes hydraulic pressure (hence pilot operated) to open the valve and allow cylinder movement.

So a blown hose, or other Hydraulic failure defaults to the normally close position of the valve and no movement.

ANY system you try to implement to allow selective bypass of the DPCV is self defeating because it still allows for a mode of failure.

You could feed an electric selector valve/diverter valve..... Tee at the cylinder. One output of selector goes straight to tee...(the output you have to energize). The other output goes through the DPCV.

You "could" do this with one selector and one DPCV....But you'd have more hoses between the DPCV and cylinders.....which if fail have zero safety and loader will drop.

Two selectors and two DPCV's would be safer....but you still have the bypass hose going from selector to cylinder that "could" fail and cause loader drop.

With a pair of selectors, pair of DPCV's, joystick with buttons, and plumbing and hoses.....are you ready to pay $1500 in parts to make this happen?

I still ask WHY? What use do you have in mind? Do you plan on using this as an aerial lift with you in bucket? Or hoisting something heavy over your head? Because $1500 is good incentive to find another way

 

[DaveOmak]

They are called "check valves" by Prince...

LD1, please take the day off...

Prince Pilot Operated Check Valves RD1600 Series RD1650: 20 GPM, 1/2’’ NPT Inlet/Outlet, 4:01 Ratio, Two Stage Poppet, 222180​

Brand: Prince

 

[LD1]

LD1, please take the day off...

As you wish. I will unsubscribe from this thread and block you so I no longer see any of your posts.

Good luck with your issue, but I doubt you will get any help from anyone on the internet with your attitude and unwillingness to even answer simple questions. And your parents knowledge of hydraulics being zero.....you don't have the ability to even comprehend the knowledge and advise given....let alone even implement something.

Again....I wish you well. Glad I won't see it or anything further from you

 

[oldnslo]

If you want to meet most safety requirements you will need to replace both the lift and tilt cylinders with cylinders that have the load holding valves mounted directly on or in them. This eliminates any hose burst concerns but also eliminates float.

Another option is hose burst valves but these will allow loader to drop a ways before locking up. These are frequently used in application like tail gate lift. They will allow float as long as flow does not exceed preset limit.

 

[DaveOmak]

Amazon.com : pilot operated check valve

These are mountable to my cylinders for added safety..

Amazon.com : double pilot operated hydraulic check valve

These also... I'm not familiar with which valves will do what I want... or exactly how to hook them up...

 

[DaveOmak]

Could you link me to "hose burst valves"... I'm not familiar with those...

 

[oldnslo]

What is your ultimate goal on how you want your loader to perform?

First post was asking for load holding and float. This is a very difficult combination to achieve.

Do a search for hose burst valve. Hydac, Rexroth, Hawe, etc. all make them.

 

[DaveOmak]

From what I read, If the hyd. sys. fails, the valve "locks off" the hydraulic fluid so forks or bucket do not move...

About the float... Folks talk about putting their snow pushing "blades" into a float condition so it will follow the contour of the ground to make plowing snow easier...

Personally, I'm not familiar with either of those things... They sound like something that would make like easier and safer...

oldnslo... I appreciate your effort trying to help me..​

 

[oldnslo]

From what I read, If the hyd. sys. fails, the valve "locks off" the hydraulic fluid so forks or bucket do not move...

Read where on what type of vehicle or application? Man lift, crane, loader?

About the float... Folks talk about putting their snow pushing "blades" into a float condition so it will follow the contour of the ground to make plowing snow easier...

I suspect your loader has float option now. With bucket on the ground push the joystick forward a little harder to see if it pops into a detent. If it does now back up with valve in this position and the bucket should follow contour of the ground. I.e. the bucket “floats” over the surface.

Personally, I'm not familiar with either of those things... They sound like something that would make like easier and safer...

Float is common on loaders, hose burst protection not as common but possible with correctly sized hose burst valve at each cylinder. Sizing these is the challenge.

 

[DaveOmak]

From what I read, If the hyd. sys. fails, the valve "locks off" the hydraulic fluid so forks or bucket do not move...

Read where on what type of vehicle or application? Man lift, crane, loader?

Mostly on telehandlers... is my experience...

If my idea is not do-able, I will step back from the safety valve thing until I can hit a hydraulics shop...

About the float... Folks talk about putting their snow pushing "blades" into a float condition so it will follow the contour of the ground to make plowing snow easier...

I suspect your loader has float option now. With bucket on the ground push the joystick forward a little harder to see if it pops into a detent. If it does now back up with valve in this position and the bucket should follow contour of the ground. I.e. the bucket “floats” over the surface.

I will check that out... Thanks...

 

[oldnslo]

Tele-handler is a different style machine than typical loader on a tractor. I would suspect most newer tele-handlers do have some form of hose burst protection since they are used to transport and lift product with people working in same vicinity a job sites. Loaders can be used for this but typically not their main purpose in life.

Does a Tele-handler have float feature? Not sure since have not been around newer units.

 

[DaveOmak]

oldnslo... Does a Tele-handler have float feature? Not sure since have not been around newer units.

I can't see what use a float feature would be on a telehandler... Sooo I doubt they would have that feature...

 

[Vigo327]

I didnt know how burst valves existed until reading this thread.. seems like a big oversight for me personally but hey, im glad i learned sometime!