Backhoe Hydraulics for Backhoe

[MadReferee]

I guess what i mean is that i was suprised to see three line's to or from the backhoe.I was expecting two just the presure and return from the loader valve.Goes to show how much i pay attention i had this tractor in six piece's to repaint and replace the clutch.Since the loader is being supplyed though the backhoe then to the loader you need that extra line from the backhoe for a return line.The loader has a return also.Man we got line's running every where on this set up.

Yea, but that is the proper way to plumb this type of circuit, but most applications have the loader first then the backhoe. The return to tank line is simply for the cylinder exhaust fluid from the work ports and they can be teed together if it makes the plumbing easier. These are the only lines that can be teed.

 

[MadReferee]

Hey Mad. I'm thinking of this set up you are referring to with my L2800. Tell me if I am correct in my thinking. My hydraulic block has one line going to the loader valve, and two returning to the block from the loader. One of the two lines returning from the loader goes to the tank, and one goes to the 3pt lift. To do what you are saying, I just run a line to the rear with a QD and another line back to the block where it will dump into the 3pt or tank depending on which line I use from the loader. I then have to put a small loop to connect the lines in the rear when not useing a backhoe or woodsplitter etc. Is this correct? I seen this done on my brother in law's JD 4110 and wondering how I could do the same set up on my Kubota. This seems it might be a little risky if I should ever get my loop between the 2 QD in the rear caught up on something and it comes unhooked.

This way might be a little better:

• put a female QD on the block port where the loader PB connects to.
• put a male QD on the hose from the loader PB
• run a line (called line B) from the backhoe OUTLET back to the block and put a male QD on it.
• run a line (called line A) from the backhoe INLET back to the block and put a female QD on it.

When the backhoe is not connected, line B is disconnected from the QD on the block and the loader PB hose is connected to the QD on the block.

When the backhoe is connected, line B connects to the QD on the block and line A connects to the loader PB.

WARNING: Do not start the tractor unless the loader PB hose is connected to either the hydraulic block or to line A. If it's connected to line A then line B must also be connected. Failure to do so will damage your pump.

 

[FULLPULL]

Back in the day dad when added the backhoe they did a poor job of installing it.It was a on a ford 3000 farm tractor with the loader installed.The first day dad used it he tore the oil pan out from under it.They tied the subframe to the thin factory oil pan some way.He had a ford engineer visit the dealer and the he installed a cast oil pan from a 3400 industrial for the fix .The engineer took his time to fix the unit and it's been working good since the early 70's .It was not a clean install they welded and cut stuff and dosn't look as good as the part's we have to work with today.But we have used it and worked it for many year's.

 

[jgbanshee]

I picked my backhoe up yesterday and have looked over it. I can now start to route hydraulics from the tractor to the backhoe. My plan is to route the loader and backhoe in series for now. My Ford dealer told me that the 26GPM flow from the engine pump might run the backhoe such that it is uncontrollable. I have a couple questions.

1. Do I have to use steel tubing or can I use rubber rubber hose to route back to the backhoe? What is the difference?

2. If the flow is too great for the backhoe (req.'s 9-14 GPM), can I add a divider that allows the appropriate flow to the backhoe and the remainder to flow back to the reservoir?

 

[john_bud]

Steel is better, lower pressure loss and more robust so it won't ...er.. bust.

You can use a divider valve exactly as you state. Simple solution to too much flow (a VERY rare issue!)

jb

 

[MadReferee]

Flow capacities of hydraulic pressure lines in gpm @ 20 ft/sec:

1/4" -- hose = 3.5 steel = 6.5
3/8" -- hose = 7 steel = 12
1/2" -- hose = 12 steel = 19
3/4" -- hose = 27 steel = 33
1" -- hose = 48 steel = 56
1.25" -- hose = 75 steel = 93

 

[jgbanshee]

Ok, I will use steel line rather than hose. My only problem is that I can only bend up to 1/2" steel with my bender.

My Bradco has swing speed control valve on it, which I'm hoping that if the flow is too great or uncontrollable I could turn the swing speed down a bit.

 

[jgbanshee]

Here is what I found on the Ford parts website. These are two parts photos for the Ford 764 backhoe that fits to the 345,445, & 545 tractors.

The first photo is of the tractor hydraulics for the 445A and 545A tractors (I'm guessing they had the Power Beyond). I am guessing that I might be able to purchase the pre-bent steel line from the photo.

The second photo is of a flow divider kit.

 

[FULLPULL]

I would think your NH dealer should be able to get the part's you need.We have prebent steel tubing for our older unit.You might find a construcion equipment grave yard and get all that you need off a retired unit.Your tractor is a industrial type unit they should of made a easy way to plumb in a backhoe as in a kit.Find a kit setting on a shelf and your in bidness.

 

[jgbanshee]

I just measured the inlet and outlet lines and they are steel 1" OD.

 

[MadReferee]

Outside diameter doesn't say much. You need to know the inside diameter (probably around 7/8") then determine what you are going to use adapter and thread wise. You might want to give the people at Discount Hydraulic Hose a call and see what they have that might help you.

 

[jgbanshee]

If I am following the hydraulic lines correctly under the Ford parts website, the backhoe seems to connected before the loader valve in the series. Why is this way not recommended? The reason I bring this up is that I was looking over the current lines on the tractor and found the return to the tank has a drain plug for changing the fluid and Im not sure how to keep that in the system for easy fluid changes. Is connecting the valves in series is the same as power beyond or does the power beyond allow both attachments to work simultaneously?

 

[MadReferee]

Is connecting the valves in series is the same as power beyond or does the power beyond allow both attachments to work simultaneously?

All vavles must be connected in series regardless of whether or not they are configured for power beyond.

As I have explained many times before, power beyond is nothing more than how the control valve is configured. A valve configured for power beyond will exhaust the neutral pressure fluid from the work ports back to the tank instead of back into the main flow circuit. When the valve is not configured for power beyond the neutral pressure fluid dumped back into the circuit cannot operate valves downstream. In other words, if you want to operate a valve simultaneously with another valve further on in the circuit, all previous valves must have power beyond.

 

[jgbanshee]

So, if my backhoe has the power beyond I should then run the backhoe first in the series and the loader second?

 

[MadReferee]

Since I can't think of any time where you would be activating the loader valve simultaneously with the backhoe valve, it doesn't really matter.

Most loader valves are configured for power beyond and are usually the first in the circuit. Remotes and backhoes come next and the 3pt is usually last. It's usually easier to plumb the loader valve first and have the circuit work its way towards the back of the tractor. Less hoses running back and forth that way.

 

[jgbanshee]

Is an 8.5 gal reservoir on the tractor enough for a my backhoe that requires 9-14 gpm flow?

 

[jgbanshee]

I talked with the people at Bradco today and they said that the hydraulic reservoir on the tractor is fine and the 26 GPM is more than enough and I will probably run at low throttle. The person I talked to said that I would be better to use a diverter valve than running the loader and backhoe valves in series. He said that running them in series can ruin the valves.

Now, Bradco wants $750.00 for their hydraulics diverter kit for my tractor. I really dont know what to do. I cannot bend 1 in. steel tubing nor can I flare the ends. I have a local (10 miles away) hydraulic shop that I THINK can do it but I cant take my tractor there to bend the tubing to contour to the machine. Should I buy Bradcos kit or will it be much much cheaper to do it myself?

 

[MadReferee]

The person I talked to said that I would be better to use a diverter valve than running the loader and backhoe valves in series. He said that running them in series can ruin the valves.

That statement is a complete line of salesman's BS. The RED flag immediately goes up.

Now, Bradco wants $750.00 for their hydraulics diverter kit for my tractor. I really dont know what to do. I cannot bend 1 in. steel tubing nor can I flare the ends. I have a local (10 miles away) hydraulic shop that I THINK can do it but I cant take my tractor there to bend the tubing to contour to the machine. Should I buy Bradcos kit or will it be much much cheaper to do it myself?

That's why the first statement is BS. All they want you to do is buy their product that they will make several hundred dollars profit on. I would NEVER buy the Bradco kit.

Every single day several hundred thousand TLB's operate without problems that are plumbed with the loader and backhoe in series. Yours will run fine too.

 

[jgbanshee]

Thanks for the reply. I was pretty sure that you guys are right with what you are telling me and they are looking for profits in every way possible.

I have talked with my Ford dealer about the 764 model backhoe that was made for my tractor but hard to come by about the routing of hydraulics. The parts diagrams show the valves in series. They want like $300 just for the tubes and hoses not to mention all the fittings here and there.

In general, would it be cheaper to buy from Ford or buy parts here and there and bend and flare the tubing myself?

 

[MadReferee]

It's always cheaper to do it yourself, provided you have the skills, knowledge and proper tools to get the job done. That being said, if you are uncomforatble doing it yourself then spend the money buy an easy install kit. Only you can determine what to do.